AFRIKA KORPS FORUM

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

You are not logged in.

Announcement

New Forum about the DAK and Tropical German army, and Allied army in WW2 only

#1 19-03-2013 13:31:14

grant
New Member
Registered: 01-05-2011
Posts: 18

Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

I can't identify this jacket. 
It is similar to a late war tropical type tunic, but not the same.  The sleeve cuffs are plain, the collar fastens with a hook and eye, & the holes for the belt hooks have not been opened.  There is no sign there were any breast badge or collar patches.  There are no signs of any other badges at all except for the Islamic type patch on the sleeve that I can not identify.  A friend attempted to translate but could only make out parts.  The Arabic writing ends with a sound like 'ksan' and has the meaning in the middle of a word like 'group'.


http://imageshack.us/a/img11/4374/arabicjacket.jpg

The buttons are a plastic type I have seen on some other wartime German clothing (DAK great coat & a KM tropical jacket).  On the shoulders are metal buttons and cloth loops for shoulder straps.  All buttons appear to be original to the jacket and none  have been replaced.

There are marks on the inside but they are indistinct.  One marking is in a rectangle and appears to read 'K.M. FLANDER, MIND*N***', 1941 or 1944 (closer to 1944)
Below that is a standard German type size markings.
42     54
     98
71     68

Another small mark within another rectangle appears the be 'R.P. Beslin', (or Berlin) and nothing else.

The jacket has four plain square flapped pockets, and one internal left breast pocket, closed by a button and a loop of material.


http://imageshack.us/a/img834/9896/arabicsleeve.jpg


Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by grant (24-03-2013 14:39:00)

Offline

 

#2 19-03-2013 15:34:37

fez
DAK Member
From: Tamworth, UK
Registered: 04-05-2012
Posts: 46

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

I cant see the the pictures mate

Offline

 

#3 19-03-2013 16:45:44

grant
New Member
Registered: 01-05-2011
Posts: 18

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

Niether can I.
I'll try again
http://imageshack.us/a/img11/4374/arabicjacket.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img834/9896/arabicsleeve.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img402/9479/arabicbadge.jpg

Offline

 

#4 20-03-2013 03:43:33

grant
New Member
Registered: 01-05-2011
Posts: 18

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

The stamp
As best I can tell it appears to read 'K.M. FLANDER, MIND*N***', 1941 or 1944

http://imageshack.us/a/img11/8093/ksflamind.jpg

Last edited by grant (20-03-2013 12:25:59)

Offline

 

#5 20-03-2013 03:48:18

grant
New Member
Registered: 01-05-2011
Posts: 18

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

Inner pocket
The print in the rectangle rectangle appears to read 'R.P. Beslin', (or Berlin)

http://imageshack.us/a/img824/3379/innerpocket.jpg

Last edited by grant (20-03-2013 12:27:38)

Offline

 

#6 20-03-2013 13:54:53

Bond
Veteran DAK Member
Registered: 13-04-2011
Posts: 788

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

Totally unlike anything WWII German I have seen and I think it is post war for an Islamic country.  The buttons are wrong, as is the cut of the tunic and the shape of the pockets and flaps, the interior pocket is wrong and the HBT material is also not what I would expect to see.  The stamps that look German are probably added to pimp it or perhaps you have misread them.


Regards,

Jerry B.

Offline

 

#7 20-03-2013 16:05:59

grant
New Member
Registered: 01-05-2011
Posts: 18

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

I agree, it is does not correspond with usual military known patterns of clothing.  I may have misread the stamps as they are difficult to read, but I doubt they have been put there to deceive or fool, they do look like they have been there for the life of the jacket.  I wondered if it may have been something used by a para-military group, like NSKK or Org Todd.  The badge is very similar to the authorised flag of Libya (1951) adopted after the British left in 1949, which certainly supports a post-war theory.
Looking at the stamp under different lighting the date is 1941, I have tried to get better images but I am not being successful.  The buttons are unusual, but I do recall seeing one on a DAK great coat in an out of the way place.  That is not to say the button I saw on a DAK item was not a replacement.


http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/593/shoulderq.jpg

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/5816/dscf1308b.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8161/dscf1309j.jpg

Last edited by grant (20-03-2013 17:34:48)

Offline

 

#8 20-03-2013 20:33:08

Bond
Veteran DAK Member
Registered: 13-04-2011
Posts: 788

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

The Swedish produced a HBT tunic during the war, though I can'y remember exactly how it looked and if it was one of them I would expect it to have the Swedish markings, 3 crowns I think.


Regards,

Jerry B.

Offline

 

#9 20-03-2013 21:02:30

metho31
Confirmed DAK Member
Registered: 28-04-2012
Posts: 129

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

it looks a lot like the Danish m.58 uniform , we used until 1984 wink

Offline

 

#10 21-03-2013 15:12:42

grant
New Member
Registered: 01-05-2011
Posts: 18

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

Thanks for the input. 
My Swedish cotton jacket is a different shape, cut & colour, it's a very bright green. 
I also looked at the Danish M58, that is also very different.

The interior pocket has been causing me some concern.  I know I have seen it before, I thought WW1 French or Austrian of German, but none were the same.  However, the WW2 Luftwaffe jackets have the same inner pocket.  In one fliegerbluse there are the larger version of the buttons found in this coat (although in blue not green).

Last edited by grant (26-03-2013 00:44:00)

Offline

 

#11 21-03-2013 20:45:10

Bond
Veteran DAK Member
Registered: 13-04-2011
Posts: 788

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

I thought the stamp seemed familiar as it is one often seen in fake caps and though they did make caps then this version is a fake and I don't think they made tunics, but they might have.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/10_fake_cap_stamp.jpg


Regards,

Jerry B.

Offline

 

#12 22-03-2013 01:47:52

grant
New Member
Registered: 01-05-2011
Posts: 18

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

Thanks.
That's interesting and fairly conclusive;  if the tunic I possess has the same stamp as the fake cap then the tunic is also fake. 
I do observe some differences in the boldness of the writing, the font of the numbers are different and the position of the print in the upper section of the stamp is different.

I am grateful to see the spelling of the name is K. M. FLAUDER of MINDEN (Westf.) and not what
I had imagined.

Offline

 

#13 22-03-2013 11:18:28

Sebastian.V
Administrator
From: Paris
Registered: 06-04-2011
Posts: 1953

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

Jerry, thanks for your Knowledges here....realy great

Sebastian.

Offline

 

#14 24-03-2013 10:59:56

grant
New Member
Registered: 01-05-2011
Posts: 18

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

With thanks to Owain, the Arabic script translates to something like "Fezan Police"
Fezan or Fezzan is an area in the south-west third of Libya.

Offline

 

#15 25-03-2013 20:22:12

fez
DAK Member
From: Tamworth, UK
Registered: 04-05-2012
Posts: 46

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

Fezan police, i like it. Are you keeping it ??
Fez

Offline

 

#16 26-03-2013 11:34:40

Sajer
DAK Member
From: Spain
Registered: 22-02-2013
Posts: 38

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

I have a BW tunic from the cols war wich have a very similar style in buttons and pocket flaps besides the fabric and colour looks very similar

Offline

 

#17 26-03-2013 12:54:07

grant
New Member
Registered: 01-05-2011
Posts: 18

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

Fez, yes I'm going to hang onto it.  I would like positive identify it. 
I have found the same buttons and interior pocket on other WW2 vintage uniforms.  I am narrowing my search to auxiliary or volunteers in Libya (HiWis).  Who unfortunately seem to be rarely photographed.

Sajer, I would love to see a photo of your cold war era jacket.

Offline

 

#18 02-04-2013 10:48:40

Sajer
DAK Member
From: Spain
Registered: 22-02-2013
Posts: 38

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

I will make pics and post them.
Anoither interesting feature is that the patch has the national flag of Libya, that flag was first insitituted in 1951  and it was in use till 1969 ( recently it has been instituted again after the revolution) the curious thing is that the patch seems to be on the wrong way usually the star is on the right and the moon is facing the other side. Could be a tunic from the Lybian army in that period?

Offline

 

#19 02-04-2013 12:28:45

grant
New Member
Registered: 01-05-2011
Posts: 18

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

Yes, I had noticed the interesting similarity between the badge  design the the current Libyan flag (or rather the 1951 flag).  The design of the flag was very specific as to the position and the relationship of the star and its 'points' to the opening of the crescent moon.  This badge design does not follow the authorised version (allegedly designed by  Omar Faiek Shennib) adopted in 1951.   It may be that this is just a very poor version of the official flag, usually I would expect that an official badge would comply with the official pattern.  The Libyan flag appears as though it was based on the all black flag of Cyrenaica (with star and moon) and incorporated the colour of red from Fezzan and the green from an earlier Tripolitania region, all three now make up Libya.
I have hunted for photos from the 1950s and 60s without being able to identify the jacket or badge.

Offline

 

#20 04-04-2013 00:23:45

christiandbn
New Member
From: Malta
Registered: 18-10-2012
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Tropical style tunic. Islamic patch.

It has neither the cut of an m43 heer tunic nor the cut of the Luftwaffe one.


-------------------------------------------------
Reproductions of tropical uniforms are probably the less studied ones. Many items are not even produced. Because of my passion for Tropical Uniforms, I make sure that these items are crafted with with same specifications of the originals!

German Tropical Uniforms

Offline

 

Board footer

Créez Votre Propre Forum
Insérer vos Graphiques
Dictionnaires de Traduction
Hébergé par ForumCrea.com