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#1 02-03-2019 10:59:49

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Well folks,

I haven’t posted much militaria lately so I thought I’d share with you some images of my latest acquisition,
a pair of 1941 dated Heer Tropenstiefel from manufacturer Schulze & Ulbricht Nachf. Schufabrik of Roßwein.

There is a post for a pair of the shorter tropical Heer ankle boots already on the forum, from the same manufacturer
and dated the same year.  Here is the link to that post if you want to have a look at these: http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/viewtopic.php?id=2537

I’d been looking for a decent pair of tall boots in a desirable size for a long time.  Anyway, here are some photos.

Regards Markus

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03213.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03227.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03223.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03222.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03217.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03219.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03220.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03216.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03225.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03214.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_schulze_ulbricht.jpg

Last edited by Markus (02-03-2019 11:11:00)

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#2 02-03-2019 14:39:41

RRA227
Supreme DAK Member
From: Hokendauqua.Pa. U.S.A.
Registered: 23-06-2011
Posts: 1689

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Nice boots.  Rich A. in Pa.


1969 Shelby GT-500 King of the Road
Knowledge is power, guard it well.

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#3 02-03-2019 20:54:09

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 406

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Very nice.
Marco

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#4 03-03-2019 00:47:20

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Thanks for the comments guys smile

At least my post was not a spammer who has gatecrashed the Forum to advertise sports shoes neutral

Regards Markus

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#5 03-03-2019 03:41:45

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 751

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Nice acquisition Markus, early dated tropical boots aren't that easy to come by and in such great condition, so you done extremely well smile
Cheers
Msteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

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#6 03-03-2019 11:30:50

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Thanks msteve21, yes I was pretty pleased to get these smile

I was wondering if any of these third pattern boots got to north Africa before the retreat resulting from the
2nd Battle of El Alamein began?  Or was it a similar situation to the 2nd and 3rd pattern tunics.

Regards Markus

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#7 03-03-2019 15:52:35

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2578

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

You scored well Markus. A very nice looking pair of 3rd pattern boots.


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#8 03-03-2019 23:47:25

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Thanks Chris, took a long time and a lot of searching to find the right pair wink

Regards Markus

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#9 05-03-2019 08:09:28

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Well folks, the only photo that I’ve seen so far that looks to be a clue to the arrival of third pattern boots is on
one in the first few pages from Robert Kurtz’s book on Afrika Korps uniforms.

The soldier reading the “Die Oase” newspaper is definitely wearing third pattern tropical low boots.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03228.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03231.jpg


When you look at the background scenery, this suggests Egypt or Libya rather than Tunisia.  What do you think?

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03234.jpg


I’ve tried as best as I can to zoom in on the date on the newspaper.  This appears directly under the swastika on
the top right hand side of the paper.  The month looks to be very long, written in lower case and the third letter seems to drop down –
my best assumption is September – this month in German and English is spelled exactly the same way. 

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc03237_a.jpg



The boots look to have been worn for a while – so before September 1942?  Perhaps neutral

Anyone with any thoughts?

Regards Markus

Last edited by Markus (05-03-2019 08:16:24)

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#10 05-03-2019 18:46:11

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2578

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

It looks more like 1943 than 1942 but if the month is September then it must be 1942.


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#11 05-03-2019 23:15:05

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Thanks Chris,

I've tried to find a copy of the same newspaper online (there are a few) but alas no luck.  I also thought at first it looked like 1943,
but when you look at the length of the word for the month and see what appears to be a dipping third letter I thought it was September.

Unfortunately can't get a clearer image, unless perhaps the original photo was available.

Regards Markus

Last edited by Markus (05-03-2019 23:42:49)

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#12 10-03-2019 14:29:33

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Hi folks,

Corresponding with DAK D I'm advised that there was a shipment of clothing that reached the Afrika Korps in July 1942, so it may be
possible that some third pattern boots were included in this shipment. 

From what I understand there was a weakness in the first and second pattern boot designs in regard to the canvas section on the top of
the toe.  This is probably the reason for the shift to the all leather toe cap, without the canvas infill.  You can see from time to time earlier
pattern boots which have been repaired and the canvas section replaced with leather. 

Maybe that was the reason for expediting the shipment of some sets of the new boot design, rather than other pieces of clothing such as
the 2nd pattern tunic, whose changes were really more cosmetic than functional?   

There's also the possibility that new replacements from Europe brought the 3rd pattern boots with them.  Anyway, whatever the case
it appears it was in pretty limited numbers prior to Tunisia from the photographic evidence.

I found a couple of photo's on the internet which are said to be German prisoners  at El Alamein in 1942.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_1942_boots.jpg


If you look carefully at this fellow from the photo he appears to be wearing the third pattern boots with the complete leather toe cap.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_1942_boots_close.jpg


DAK D located this additional photo which is taken from another angle and shows the toe cap more clearly...
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_boots_el_alamein_1942_side.jpg

The boots appear to have been worn for some time....  I don't know if anyone knows more about these particular photos?

Regards Markus.

Last edited by Markus (10-03-2019 14:40:40)

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#13 08-04-2019 06:17:37

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

I've seen the below photo of three POWs captured at El Alamein before on a number of occasions, but took some
extra time today to look at their boots.  It's possible that at least one of these fellows (German soldier on the left)
is wearing third pattern boots.  Maybe even the chap in the right....and centre?  Any thoughts?

The picture
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_prisoners_el_alamein_boots.jpg


Close up of boots
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_boots_prisoners_close_up.jpg


Close up of boots worn by German POW on left
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_boots_prisoners_close_up_1.jpg


Close up of boots worn by German POW on right
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_boots_prisoners_close_up_2.jpg

Last edited by Markus (08-04-2019 06:26:47)

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#14 09-04-2019 02:55:35

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Hi folks, following some discussions with DAK D (thanks again Dermot) we now believe that all three pairs are third pattern boots,
due to the curved stitched leather join on the external side of each pair.  This is made more apparent in this photo.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_boots_curved_join.jpg


This feature only appears on third pattern boots.  Below are some images of third pattern boots from Robert Kurtz’s
book on Afrikakorps uniforms, insignia and equipment (pages 237 and 247) showing the distinctive side stitching.


Third pattern low boots
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_low_boots_kurtz.jpg


Third pattern high boot
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_third_pattern_high_boots.jpg


Below are images of the earlier pattern boots in Dal McGuirk’s book Rommel’s Army in Africa, page 84.
These show the absence of the curved stitched leather join.

Early low boots
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_low_boots_mcguirk.jpg


First pattern high boots
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_first_pattern_high_boots.jpg


Second pattern high boots
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_second_pattern_high_boots.jpg


So, if the labeling of the POW photo is correct, both low and high 3rd pattern boots were used at El Alamein.   Unfortunately
due to the quality of most period photos and a focus on other features the percentage of these in use at this time is unknown neutral

Last edited by Markus (09-04-2019 03:23:38)

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#15 09-04-2019 15:42:10

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2578

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Very good observations Markus cool


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#16 10-04-2019 00:37:36

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Thanks Chris smile

Markus

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#17 10-04-2019 11:03:43

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 406

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Markus your pics are astonishing and very instructive!!
I had always thought that the third type had never seen the sands of El Almein, but now I know I was wrong .... even my mannequin thanks you, now he knows that his boots can be correct for him.
Many many thanks smile
Marco

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#18 11-04-2019 03:08:28

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

No problem Marco, credit is also due to Dermot, who identified the boot joins in the photo smile

The high third pattern boots worn by the soldier on the right of the photo appear to have been
in use for some time.   This tends to confirm that these type of boots were possibly part
of the uniform shipment which arrived in July 1942; or were worn by replacement troops who arrived
with these boots prior to El Alamein.

Cheers Markus

Last edited by Markus (11-04-2019 03:18:20)

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#19 11-04-2019 22:17:00

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 406

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Marcus in my book Rommel's Army in Africa By McGuirk we can read "those boots arrived there in mid 1942 and were the most common boots issued immediately before and during the Tunisian campaign".

Here is a nice pics in which it clearly seems to me to recognize the curved stitched leather join of the third pattern (the Officer in central position). It has been taken on 23 Oct 1942, the day of the opening of the final British offensive at El Alamein!!
Moreover we can identify the redoutable Major Georg Briel (left).

https://i.postimg.cc/ryCCVHZG/allegati-rogito155.jpg



PS: Marcus I have already privately thanked Dermot...

Ciao
Marco

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#20 11-04-2019 23:42:11

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Well spotted Marco, I agree these are third pattern and with a dated photo this
confirms use at El Alamein. 

Regards Markus

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_3rd_pattern_boots_el_alamein.jpg

P.S. There is a photo of Georg Briel taken around the same time.  Shows him also wearing the 3rd pattern low boots with gaiters -
I reckon that he may very well be wearing them in the photo that you've posted but they are cut off by the bottom edge of the image...
here it is.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_georg-briel-resting-w1500-o.jpg

Last edited by Markus (08-09-2019 13:25:41)

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#21 12-04-2019 10:19:09

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 406

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

smile

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#22 15-04-2019 06:09:10

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 751

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Very informative research Markus
Msteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

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#23 15-04-2019 08:13:23

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Thanks msteve21  smile

Cheers Markus

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#24 24-04-2019 15:37:43

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: 3rd pattern Tropical Heer tall boots – Schulze & Ulbricht 1941

Another pair of third pattern low pattern boots worn with gaiters in possibly a mid - late 1942 setting.....
unfortunately no firm details.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_officer_group_photo.jpg


Close up showing all leather toecaps.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_boots_close_up_z.jpg

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