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#1 08-08-2018 06:14:46

NZMark
Moderator
From: New Zealand
Registered: 08-04-2011
Posts: 1088

1943 Dated Greatcoat

..But not just a tropical greatcoat, a blanket lined wachmantel.
Has anyone else seen a 1943 dated tropical coat of any kind? There must be others out there. Tropical uniforms were manufactured through to 1944, so surely....
Mark
NZ
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_001.jpg
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_w1.jpg
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_w3.jpg
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_w7.jpg
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_w10.jpg
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_w6.jpg
Here's a colour comparison of a continental strap on the olive of the mantel.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_w9.jpg


Student & Collector of WWII German Tropical Militaria

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#2 08-08-2018 12:15:12

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 522

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

A very rare find Mark yikes

From what I understand UNAG FFM is a known manufacturer of greatcoats but all of the other examples that I've seen have been continental, including
a 1943 Wachmantel  said to be made by the same firm and shown on the WAF - http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ … t=unag+ffm .

You're probably aware that UNAG FFM is the abbreviated form of Unag Uniform Aktiengesellschaft (A.G.) of Frankfurt am Main (FFM).

I personally haven't seen any tropical greatcoat with a 1943 depot date or a RB Nr.  The closest I've seen are tropical Kradmantels dated 1943.

As you've mentioned it seems unusual when tropical uniforms were manufactured until 1944.  Did they manufacture enough of these coats in the early years?   Did they use
continental greatcoats say for example in Italy etc after the earlier tropical greatcoat stocks were depleted?

Anyway, after this great find I'm expecting soon for that 1942 dated 2nd pattern tropical tunic to appear smile

Regards Markus.

Last edited by Markus (09-08-2018 03:12:36)

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#3 08-08-2018 13:54:20

RRA227
Supreme DAK Member
From: Hokendauqua.Pa. U.S.A.
Registered: 23-06-2011
Posts: 1502

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

Great overcoat. Rich A. in Pa.


1969 Shelby GT-500 King of the Road
Knowledge is power, guard it well.

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#4 09-08-2018 05:35:15

NZMark
Moderator
From: New Zealand
Registered: 08-04-2011
Posts: 1088

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

Hi Guys,
Thanks You!
Markus...Did I mention I have now a 1941 dated 2nd pattern? smile That's the fourth I know of, but there will be more out there.
I have seen two 1942 dated 3rd patterns. I was interested in one but the price was ridiculous.
Mark.
NZ


Student & Collector of WWII German Tropical Militaria

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#5 09-08-2018 05:48:33

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 522

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

Mark, well done on the 1941 2nd pattern tunic.

Some photo's when you have time please big_smile

Regards Markus

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#6 09-08-2018 12:41:49

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 560

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

A great addition to your collection Mark, interesting point about no known 43 dated tropical grey coats have been encountered
Msteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

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#7 09-08-2018 13:42:01

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 522

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

Hey NZMark,

I found this photo tonight in the same album of period photographs that I mentioned in my recent post on
brown k98 ammunition pouches. 

This photo is amongst a number of others belonging to the same soldier and are marked Tripoli
and Benghazi - I'm assuming they are from the early months of the Afrikakorps campaigns in 1941?
 
The overcoat worn by the officer in the photo appears to have the same features as the other tropical Wachmantel
in your collection (double row of breast buttons) which you've posted previously.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/viewtopic.php?id=94

The unit that the soldier owning the photos belonged to were fully kitted out with tropical uniforms and equipment, including
standard tropical overcoats.

What do you think?

Regards Markus

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_wachmantel.jpg

Last edited by Markus (09-08-2018 13:54:14)

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#8 09-08-2018 23:17:55

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 560

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

Great photo Markus
Correction from previous post, I meant to write is this the first 43 dated coat encountered by collectors?
Msteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

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#9 10-08-2018 07:11:49

NZMark
Moderator
From: New Zealand
Registered: 08-04-2011
Posts: 1088

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

Thanks Markus,
I have that image as well.
I'll also add these, the first being a clear shot of a blanket lined coat in use in Africa. The others are all of the wachmantel version coats, but which version is a harder task except the thickness and hang of the coat on the man. The bulk of the quilt version is obvious on Bayerlein...
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_dak4wy2.jpg
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_ca20023.jpg
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_coat120001.jpg
I think this is a blanket lined version...
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_dscn0532.jpg
Blanket
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_wach20003.jpg
Quilted
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_wach20006.jpg
Blanket
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_wach20013.jpg
I know no collector who has yet seen a 1943 dated tropical coat of any model, but that only means in my limited experience.
Mark


Student & Collector of WWII German Tropical Militaria

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#10 10-08-2018 09:53:32

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 522

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

Thanks for the additional photos Mark, they're great cool

The easiest way for me to identify the difference is the extra slash pockets, the straight flaps on the other front pockets
and the hem to the skirt of the coat. 

Thanks again.

Markus

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#11 18-08-2018 08:14:44

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 522

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

Hi NZMark, don't know whether you've seen this photo on the Histomil web site previously.  Reportedly
a group of Germans in Italy surrendering to the British 8th Army in January 1945.

Unfortunately the photo is not in colour but the soldier either 3rd or 4th in line with the light coloured cap - is this a
mix of tropical clothing he's wearing?  Can't be sure but maybe canvas uppers on his boots....

Looks like a number of these guys are wearing Wachmantels, including the man with the light cap,
but with no colour and my limited knowledge on this topic I can't tell if any are tropical wool.....

Anyway here's the photo if you're interested...Regards Markus

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_german_pows_italy.jpg

Last edited by Markus (18-08-2018 09:46:45)

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#12 18-08-2018 14:40:59

RRA227
Supreme DAK Member
From: Hokendauqua.Pa. U.S.A.
Registered: 23-06-2011
Posts: 1502

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

Great pics!  Rich A. in Pa.


1969 Shelby GT-500 King of the Road
Knowledge is power, guard it well.

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#13 19-08-2018 02:43:41

Unfront
Confirmed DAK Member
From: West Coast of the US
Registered: 13-04-2011
Posts: 128
Website

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

What a great find, and the pictures are interesting as well. Thanks for sharing!


_____
I collect Hermann Goring Panzerkorp and Luftwaffe Field Division items as well as tropical items from all branches of service.

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#14 20-08-2018 01:16:19

NZMark
Moderator
From: New Zealand
Registered: 08-04-2011
Posts: 1088

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

Thanks Guys!
Yeah - I'm excited about it. I still get that 'buzz' examining the collection, whether just a solbuch or a cap - it's all relevant.
I have seen another photo of what purports to be a soldier surrendering in 1943 wearing a wachmantel - hard to tell as it's only the collar really in detail. I'll try to find it. The main thing to remember is in black and white images a continental wool coat beside a brown wool coat is far lighter - so if we see a group standing together in Africa and the wool all looks the same the chances are they're all brown, as per the images above taken in Africa.
I'm sure these went to Italy, Markus. Not issuing them just doesn't make sense.
Mark
NZ


Student & Collector of WWII German Tropical Militaria

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#15 24-08-2018 02:26:30

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 522

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

I was having a look on YouTube and found a video called Victory in Tunisia (1943).

There's what appears to be a 'staged' surrender scene.  You may have already picked this one up if you've seen it but the dark
lining inside the mantel being carried by one of the prisoners... in time frames from 1:26 to 1:32...

Regards Markus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va_HRu6MVcw

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_tunisia_1943.jpg

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#16 25-08-2018 01:04:54

NZMark
Moderator
From: New Zealand
Registered: 08-04-2011
Posts: 1088

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

Looks like it! Went through several times but the pocket detail wasn't clear enough - but that lining is bang on. LW troops used their own blue/grey coats in Africa, so who knows? Has anyone seen a LW blanket lined wachmantel?
Mark


Student & Collector of WWII German Tropical Militaria

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#17 28-08-2018 06:27:20

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 522

Re: 1943 Dated Greatcoat

Hi Mark, I've had a quick look and it appears that the Luftwaffe had their own blanket lined continental Wachmantel (also found coastal artillery units
also had Wachmantels).

Here's some images of the Luftwaffe ones:

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=116757

https://www.ratisbons.com/shop/MILITARI … 937-a.html

Without colour film it makes it difficult to judge what is what, but I'd suggest that in your first photo (halftrack) it is possible that
this is a Heeer Wachmantel as the Luftwaffe troops (I'm assuming they are by the collar tabs) appear to be wearing Heer tunics and
caps.

Regards Markus.

Last edited by Markus (28-08-2018 06:39:25)

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