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#1 17-02-2017 02:57:30

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1131
Website

Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Recently had a chance to pick up a larger (approx. 3' x 5") nicer condition flag compared to the example I posted earlier. This one does have a couple holes worn in it but the color is excellent! Hope you will enjoy!  Barron smile

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/barronreb/Italian%20Equipment/DSC02410_zps4lklyeah.jpg,http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/barronreb/Italian%20Equipment/DSC02411_zpsnbzxbrio.jpg,http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/barronreb/Italian%20Equipment/DSC02414_zpsx0l67pep.jpg,http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/barronreb/Italian%20Equipment/DSC02416_zpsok0yaa77.jpg,http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/barronreb/Italian%20Equipment/DSC02417_zpsdt3rxdte.jpg

Last edited by Rebbaron55 (17-02-2017 02:58:47)

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#2 17-02-2017 13:37:55

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2477

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Nice addition to your collection mate.


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#3 17-02-2017 22:34:42

RRA227
Supreme DAK Member
From: Hokendauqua.Pa. U.S.A.
Registered: 23-06-2011
Posts: 1321

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

To bad it does not have a crown. Rich A. in Pa.


1969 Shelby GT-500 King of the Road
Knowledge is power, guard it well.

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#4 17-02-2017 22:55:24

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1131
Website

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Yeah, I don't collect pre-war Italian anyway, but it probably would be more scarce? I was just happy to finally get a flag to display my WW2 Italian items on! smile  Barron

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#5 18-02-2017 18:58:04

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 359

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Ciao Rebbaron
for you information.

The national flag of the Italian Kingdom was exactly the same of the Kingdom of Sardinia (from 1848 up 1861)

The state flag had the coat of arms surmounted by the Crown. This kind of flag was used for the sovereign residences, parliament buildings, government offices and diplomatic missions.

The Royal army flag mod. 1860 had the coat of arms surmounted by the Crown and it had these sizes:  1,214 m × 1.214 m for infantry;  0,600 m × 0,600 m for cavalry.

http://i64.tinypic.com/5ai52b.jpg

A)  national flag
B)  state flag
C)  army flag

Naval flag had the coat of arms surmounted by the Crown only for the Navy.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2dt5e3a.jpg


I hope I have been helpful for you.
Ciao

Last edited by zip3120 (19-02-2017 09:51:25)

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#6 19-02-2017 08:12:09

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1131
Website

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Very interesting Zip! Always wondered what the crown significance was. During WW2 in North Africa which (if not all) types of flags would the Italian military forces used? hmm  Barron

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#7 19-02-2017 10:35:17

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 359

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

The Italian military forces used the army flag

http://i66.tinypic.com/2j13fuw.jpg

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#8 19-02-2017 14:36:34

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1131
Website

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Here is the kind of illustration that has me confused. Was the Italian military as confused as the Germans when it came to using flags? I have seen pictures of German HQs in field using the navy Reichskriegsflagg. hmm  Barron

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/barronreb/Flags/Cartolina_Ritorneremo_zpshtdy3jy9.jpg

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#9 19-02-2017 17:07:24

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 359

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Ciao Barron
as you know very well all it was possible in battle field! Someone may have used a civil flag found somewhere... also there could be many other situations, who knows.
Surely the battle flag had the crown and had very precise dimensions, as stated by Italian military Regulations.

Moreover keep in mind that the real war flags belonged to individual units and they were sacred, as in every army. So, in case of defeat, they often were destroyed by soldiers.
Many of the survived flags are preserved in the "Sanctuary of the Flags" at the Vittoriano in Rome.
Here are flags of many units of the Regio Esercito, Carabinieri Reali and Regia Marina.

What you posted is a famous propaganda imagine. These are very nice but not always very close to reality!

Marco

Last edited by zip3120 (19-02-2017 22:29:50)

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#10 21-02-2017 20:04:39

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1131
Website

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Here are a couple photos showing again why I end up confused on this issue and am glad that someone on the Forum has some independant information on subject! One is showing a nice crowned Italian flag captured in the desert and the second an uncrowned flag flying off a Matilda tank in desert! big_smile  Barron

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/barronreb/Italian%20Equipment/12677624_193535397672728_1542941302_n_zpspp8vmbmo.jpg,http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/barronreb/Italian%20Equipment/10914646_718100448304377_2113816196_n_zpssb5du4wv.jpg

Last edited by Rebbaron55 (21-02-2017 20:12:05)

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#11 21-02-2017 22:44:44

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 359

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

zip3120 wrote:

as you know very well all it was possible in battle field! Someone may have used a civil flag found somewhere... also there could be many other situations, who knows.
Surely the battle flag had the crown and had very precise dimensions, as stated by Italian military Regulations.

Barron I think the Italian military regulation constitutes a set of rules that an Italian soldier must respect!

Your photos are very nice.

In the first flag I cannot read all that is written, but it is clearly visible " 40 fanteria" .  40° reggimento was part of the Divisione Bologna.

In the second photo we can see an Italian flag, but we have no proof it was a military flag! I think it was a civil flag captured in some village just conquered.

Marco

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#12 21-02-2017 22:50:50

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1131
Website

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Absolutely right! It is just very confusing, for very good reason! It is part of what is so fun in collecting these items!  big_smile  Barron

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#13 15-04-2017 10:51:09

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 359

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Hi Barron
I found, studying the Italians in Russia, three pics of the Savoia Cavalleria's combat flag.

Savoia Cavalleria fought with honor and did one of the last cavalry charges in history.
24 August 1942, 600/ 700 cavalrymen of Savoy broke and disbanded the attack of about 2,500 Siberian, 32 cavalrymen had died, including the commanders of the 3rd and 4th squadrons, 52 were wounded. Well over 100 horses were also lost. The enemy had left behind 150 dead, 300 wounded, 600 prisoners.
The bold action was repaid with a gold medal to the regiment standard and to Captain Abbŕ and Major Litta Modignani who died in action. Another 54 silver medals and 49 war crosses were also awarded.

http://i64.tinypic.com/2ec0is4.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/207upo5.jpg

Here we can see the commander of the Savoy cavalry In Russia, Colonel Alessandro Bettoni Cazzago.

http://i63.tinypic.com/5xu32g.jpg

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#14 15-04-2017 12:55:55

RRA227
Supreme DAK Member
From: Hokendauqua.Pa. U.S.A.
Registered: 23-06-2011
Posts: 1321

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Great pics! Rich A. in Pa.


1969 Shelby GT-500 King of the Road
Knowledge is power, guard it well.

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#15 15-04-2017 16:52:09

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1131
Website

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Very interesting! Thanks for posting! I never thought of Italian cavalry!  Barron

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#16 15-04-2017 22:40:33

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 359

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Hi friends
Yes Italian cavalry fought with honor, as all the Italians in Russia (unfortunately they lacked the equipment and ammunition, as always!)

Here are other pics.

http://i63.tinypic.com/nq1eom.jpg

This above is an important photo. It was taken by Captain Salvatore Abba, just before falling to the head of his men during the Izbushensky charge!

http://i64.tinypic.com/afjzu8.jpg

Major Alberto Litta Modignani, he fell (already injured a first time) to the head of his 2nd Group Squad......

http://i66.tinypic.com/fz258p.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/2a9660z.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/21zmmf.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/2r6nmnl.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/2i71p5d.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/140anp0.jpg


Barron did you see the combat flags? all of them have the crown.
Moreover I think that the flag on the tank, in your post #10, have the crown too. The coat-of-arms is not centered on the white, but It is moved down as if there was a crown above.

Last edited by zip3120 (16-04-2017 10:36:05)

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#17 16-04-2017 16:25:12

RRA227
Supreme DAK Member
From: Hokendauqua.Pa. U.S.A.
Registered: 23-06-2011
Posts: 1321

Re: Excellent Condition Wartime Italian National Flag

Great pics. Rich A. in Pa.


1969 Shelby GT-500 King of the Road
Knowledge is power, guard it well.

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