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#1 20-05-2016 11:37:24

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2517

Dutch Pith Helmet Used by the DAK

After the thread that Marco started i decided to post this rarity in it's own thread and post a link to Marco's thread.

Credit: The helmet belongs to Bob Lyons who is not a member here, so i asked and got his permission.



http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_dak_headgear_014.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_dak_headgear_015.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_dak_headgear_016.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_dak_headgear_017.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_dak_headgear_018.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_dak_headgear_019.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_dak_headgear_023.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_dak_headgear_024.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_dak_headgear_025.jpg


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#2 20-05-2016 11:38:51

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2517

Re: Dutch Pith Helmet Used by the DAK

Interior photos


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_dak_headgear_020.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_dak_headgear_021.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_dak_headgear_022.jpg


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Back up forum in case of emergency: http://afrikakorpsforum.xooit.fr/index.php
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#3 20-05-2016 13:02:56

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 359

Re: Dutch Pith Helmet Used by the DAK

Hi Chris
this is a very nice SOUTH AFRICAN "polo Style" sun helmet smile, standard version.

It appears that the Dutch company “JP.de Mol, Breda” was granted a pre-war contract to manufacture these for export to the South African military. These helmets were always intended for the South Africans – and never for the Dutch Army; they were completely different from anything the Dutch Army was using in its distance Far East colonies but instead they comply with the SA standard. Please see   http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/heer-luft … ld-563623/    and   http://www.militarysunhelmets.com/2015/ … onnection.   wink

Ciao

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#4 23-05-2016 12:04:09

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 540

Re: Dutch Pith Helmet Used by the DAK

Hi Chris
Had the pleasure of handing this helmet in person last week, it's a beautiful helmet and its certainly done some traveling around the globe since the war
you never know, could end up at your place sometime in the future:)
Mark S


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

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#5 18-06-2016 00:30:27

The Magpie
Veteran DAK Member
Registered: 29-06-2011
Posts: 650

Re: Dutch Pith Helmet Used by the DAK

Thank you Bob for allowing Chris to post pics of this very special Dutch made, German used sunhelmet. Captured stock from the 1940 campaign. These were used by the 33rd Recon bn,  33rd Art Regt & 8th Pz Regt 15th Pz Div DAK, issued April '41 in Germany,  & used in Afrika. Photos confirm this.

And this helmet has traveled more worldwide postwar than it ever did during the war. Perhaps it will be returning to the States and maybe coming to the Bay Area someday....tongue

Thanks again Bob
Cheers
Tim

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#6 18-06-2016 16:29:48

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 359

Re: Dutch Pith Helmet Used by the DAK

Hi mates
as I said in the other thread I want to eliminate any misunderstanding...
I don't say that this very nice sunhelmet is not Dutch made! I say that this helmet is a clearly a SOUTH AFRICAN "polo Style" sun helmet. Dutch sunhelmet, used by Dutch soldiers in their colonies, never had these characteristics.
It has all the SA features, the shape, the sweatband with its lanyard, the top air vent....  The Germans captured in Holland in 1940 a stock of pith helmet ready to be exported to South Africa to The SA Army.
Ciao
Marco

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#7 18-06-2016 19:50:10

The Magpie
Veteran DAK Member
Registered: 29-06-2011
Posts: 650

Re: Dutch Pith Helmet Used by the DAK

Hi Marco

While I understand this claim that these Dutch helmets were "made" for the SA forces, there is no real  evidence I am aware to support this ?

I am willing to say they are patterned after the SA type helmet and its possible they were intended for the SA forces.

One DAK veteran from 33rd Recon Bn insisted that these Dutch helmets are not captured stock but purchased from the Breda Co legally through official channels....

Ciao
Tim

Last edited by The Magpie (18-06-2016 20:43:31)

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#8 19-06-2016 22:30:43

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 359

Re: Dutch Pith Helmet Used by the DAK

Ciao Tim
yes there is no evidence that these Dutch helmets were "made" for the SA forces, even if someone claims that “JP.de Mol, Breda” was granted a pre-war contract to manufacture these for export to the South African military.
However, some facts are certain: I don't know sun helmets of other nations, British included, with the SA "polo" shape and the four laterals grommets, same thing for the waistband, lanyard and its felt below.

Please tell me which are the differences between the helmet in this picture: the first is the DAK helmet, the second is my SA, the third is Barry's SA

http://i66.tinypic.com/20i8fpi.png

Marco

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#9 20-06-2016 21:07:41

The Magpie
Veteran DAK Member
Registered: 29-06-2011
Posts: 650

Re: Dutch Pith Helmet Used by the DAK

Hi Marco

As I have stated many times these Dutch made helmets are similar and  appear to be patterned after the English/SA type.

Again one DAK veteran from 33rd Recon Bn 15Pz Div insisted that these Dutch helmets are not captured but purchased & distributed through official channels. But we probably will never know for certain....

Last edited by The Magpie (20-06-2016 21:09:36)

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#10 20-06-2016 21:24:28

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 359

Re: Dutch Pith Helmet Used by the DAK

Ciao Tim
you have to be patient with me, but sometime I struggle to understand your phrases...
please what do you mean by "appear to be patterned after the English/SA type."

Thanks.

PS I have some doubts in believing that an invading army has bought somethings from a subject people...

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#11 20-06-2016 22:13:40

The Magpie
Veteran DAK Member
Registered: 29-06-2011
Posts: 650

Re: Dutch Pith Helmet Used by the DAK

Sorry Marco,

Yes the Dutch made helmet is very close to manufacture to SA helmets. That is probably why the rumor started that they were for the SA forces and that Holland has ties to SA also reinforces that theory. But no evidence to link them has been found

The contract was probably done prior to the 1940 German invasion of the West. And agree it seems unlikely that Germany bought them from Holland. But he was insistant on this point.

Invading armies purchase many things from invaded countries. If you don't purchase you take, which is better for both sides involved ? It is better to purchase items if you want to have better relations with those that have been invaded. ...

At this point we do not know if these were captured, found abandon, or purchased. We need more info on the action near Breda in 1940. Perhaps the Breda co offered them for sale to the Germans after being occupied,

The timing if all this is interesting also. Originally only a single Pz unit was to go to Afrika, but with the Beda Fomm disaster the 15th Pz Div got its orders for Afrika. The Germans did not have enough tropenhelms to outfit the entire Div, so these Dutch made helmets filled the gap until the German manufactors could catch up.

Thanks again Marco

cheers
Tim

Last edited by The Magpie (20-06-2016 22:32:31)

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#12 20-06-2016 23:11:42

zip3120
Friend Of DAK Forum
Registered: 23-09-2015
Posts: 359

Re: Dutch Pith Helmet Used by the DAK

hi Tim
many thanks for your comprehension, but sometimes I have really a lot of trouble to understanding what you say if you use idioms sad

Yes I am completely agree with you, this is the Official history... indeed I do not deny that these helmets have been made by the Dutch! but it strange for me that the Dutch have done, only on that event, helmets like SA. Probably that was a not successful order....and later they had been "used" by the Germans.
Ciao, this was a very nice history debate  for me.
Marco

Marco

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