AFRIKA KORPS FORUM

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

You are not logged in.

Announcement

New Forum about the DAK and Tropical German army, and Allied army in WW2 only

#1 06-06-2016 00:06:28

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1244
Website

Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

I recently picked up a photo of this fairly rare self-propelled Bison II artillery weapon in shown in hull down position for better close in use of cannon against tanks and infantry. This particular type seems to have only been used in African campaign and all remaining were destroyed or captured at El Alamein. Enjoy!  Barron smile

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/barronreb/Military%20Photographs/DSC00991_zps5z2tp6ht.jpg

Offline

 

#2 06-06-2016 00:33:50

RRA227
Supreme DAK Member
From: Hokendauqua.Pa. U.S.A.
Registered: 23-06-2011
Posts: 1535

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Neat pic! Rich A. in Pa.


1969 Shelby GT-500 King of the Road
Knowledge is power, guard it well.

Offline

 

#3 06-06-2016 11:36:11

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2526

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Very nice photo. Indeed rare.


_____________________
Back up forum in case of emergency: http://afrikakorpsforum.xooit.fr/index.php
German Helmet Walhalla: http://www.ghw2.com
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_signature_photo.jpg

Offline

 

#4 07-06-2016 11:05:40

herrzark
Friend Of DAK Forum
From: GREECE
Registered: 06-01-2015
Posts: 327

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Great pic.Thanks for posting it


http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss190/herrzark/de15a06e-209f-43dc-b28b-50aa3c94774c_zps6n2y3euw.png

Offline

 

#5 25-08-2018 08:36:10

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 599

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

I thought that I’d add to this thread started by Barron some time ago regarding rare German equipment used in North Africa.
So, here is a photo held in the collection of the Australian War Memorial of a 7.62cm F.K.296(r) auf Zgkw. 5t.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_762_cm_fk.jpg


This vehicle is believed to be one of only nine that the Germans manufactured in late 1941, by mounting a captured Russian 76.2mm gun on a German half track.

It is believed that all 9 vehicles served with 3. Kompanie of 605. Panzerjäger-Abteilung.

Regards Markus.

Last edited by Markus (11-09-2018 05:28:45)

Offline

 

#6 25-08-2018 21:52:02

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 582

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Great photo Markus


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

Offline

 

#7 25-08-2018 22:18:33

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1244
Website

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Nice pic! Usually you see the "Diana" version with the armor plate slabs surrounding the bed for crew protection. I have been trying to add another item to this topic myself. A book that I recently acquired stated on one of their photo captions that a few Panzer V "Panther"s were sent to Tunisia and the photo shows one with British soldiers test driving it in desert surroundings! Just wondering if anyone else has been able to substantiate this? roll I would guess that it was more likely Italy!  Barron

Last edited by Rebbaron55 (26-08-2018 05:30:34)

Offline

 

#8 26-08-2018 00:02:37

RRA227
Supreme DAK Member
From: Hokendauqua.Pa. U.S.A.
Registered: 23-06-2011
Posts: 1535

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

great pic.  Rich A. in Pa.


1969 Shelby GT-500 King of the Road
Knowledge is power, guard it well.

Offline

 

#9 26-08-2018 02:29:40

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 599

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Hi Barron, I'm not aware of any Panthers being sent to North Africa so I would say Italy, where early models such as the Ausf D were definitely used.

Thanks to everyone who has commented.  There are a few unusual or rare pieces of equipment that were used in North Africa and I reckon this
would be a good thread for some further attention... smile

Regards Markus.

Offline

 

#10 26-08-2018 04:34:02

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 599

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

I thought this article on the Diana is pretty interesting regarding the history of this vehicle in North Africa and it's technical
specifications.

http://axisafvs.blogspot.com/2015/03/76 … jager.html

Here's a few more photos - looks like these vehicles often marked with a single white identifying number painted on the side of the drivers compartment
and had a white air recognition stripe painted across the hood.  The white stripe was used to minimise the chance of Luftwaffe aircraft
attacking their own troops. 

It is reported that at least some vehicles also had a small white elephant symbol painted on the front mudguard and rear
of the fighting compartment and this is evident in some of the following photos.

You'll also note that on some vehicles the side engine covers were removed - this was a common practice used to increase airflow around the engine
in such a hot climate and prevent mechanical problems.

Regards Markus

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_diana_1.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_diana_with_covers.jpg

Elephant symbol is just visible on the lower left side of the rear of the fighting compartment.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_diana_2.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_diana_3.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_diana_4.jpg

Note the elephant symbol on front mudguard....
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_diana_5.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_diana_new.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_diana_13_sept.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_destroyed_diana.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_destroyed_diana_2.jpg

Last edited by Markus (15-09-2018 07:28:20)

Offline

 

#11 26-08-2018 07:29:00

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1244
Website

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Nice article on Diana vehicle. tongue Here is the Panther that was stated in recent book to be captured in Africa. I have always wondered why the "Panther" and the "Wespe' self-propelled 105mm artillery were not sent to Africa. Matchbox 1:72 scale model cover illustration had Wespe shown in Africa. Maybe unit mostly sunk in transit? Probably dreaming but I have wondered about both vehicles as a modeler for a very long time   tongue  Barron

Hopefully someone with more knowledge of panther models will analyze and debunk or confirm this one!

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/barronreb/Books%20Ephemera/20170730_142458_zpsssjgfxwd.jpg,
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/barronreb/Books%20Ephemera/20170730_14250320-20Copy_zps1i0zeetc.jpg,http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/barronreb/Books%20Ephemera/IMG_1481_zpswpdsotpf.jpg

Last edited by Rebbaron55 (26-08-2018 08:14:21)

Offline

 

#12 26-08-2018 08:11:34

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 599

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Hi Barron I don't think the Panther or Wespe got to North Africa.

I agree with you that the photo of the Panther was probably taken in Italy smile

It's definitely one of the earlier Ausf D models, you can tell that straight away from the rectangular shaped machine gun port in the front bow plate and they were
certainly used in Italy.

I was just looking again at the Panther in the photo and it looks like it might have the Zimmerit anti magnetic mine paste? 
If so this may provide some further clues... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerit

Regards Markus.

Last edited by Markus (26-08-2018 14:21:13)

Offline

 

#13 26-08-2018 21:39:12

RRA227
Supreme DAK Member
From: Hokendauqua.Pa. U.S.A.
Registered: 23-06-2011
Posts: 1535

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Great pics.  Rich A. in Pa.


1969 Shelby GT-500 King of the Road
Knowledge is power, guard it well.

Offline

 

#14 27-08-2018 12:38:15

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 599

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Some may not consider this rare, but here are a few photos of another uncommon vehicle, the 15 cm s.F.H. 13 (sfl.) auf Lorraine-Schlepper (Sdkfz 135/1).   
This utilised the chassis of captured French Lorraine 37L vehicles to mount the German 15 cm sFH 13/1 howitzer.   

Although a total of 166 were built by Germany only 23 served in North Africa.  Apparently the main difference between the vehicles shipped to Africa
andthose that remained in Europe is that the African version had a smaller spade at the rear.

From what I’ve read 30 of these vehicles were shipped to North Africa in July and August 1942 - however 3 were lost in transit in
the July 1942 shipment and 4 more in the August 1942 shipment.   (Yes my maths is still ok – out of 30 some 23 got through!)

Of those vehicles that arrived safely, 10 were allocated to Panzer Artillerie Regiment 155 of the 21 Panzer Division and
13 to Panzer Artillerie Regiment 33 of 15 Panzer Division. 

They first saw action during Rommel’s attempt to break through Allied defences at Alam el Halfa on 30 August 1942.   
However by December 1942 all had been destroyed or abandoned, with a number (at least 7) being captured intact during the battle of El Alamein.

It’s believed that the way to quickly differentiate between the vehicles of Pz.Art.Rgt. 155 and 33 is that the vehicles of Pz.Art.Rgt. 155
have the German cross marked in several places on the sides of the crew compartment.  It is thought that Pz.Art.Rgt 33 did not have the crosses displayed.  I don't
know if anyone out there has further information on this?

All vehicles appear to have had a similar camouflage scheme, which was a base of Afrika braun with dark grey wavy stripes.   
From photo’s it looks like this was applied before the vehicles left Europe.

One final note – one Sdkfz 135/1 was located near Basra during the Iraq war in 2005!

Regards Markus

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_schlepper_pz_21_3.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_schlepper_21_pz_2.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_schlepper_21_pz.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_schlepper.jpeg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_schlepper_2.jpg

Probably aftermath of El Alamein - Bison II in background.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_a.jpg

Vehicles captured at El Alamein.. from looking at the hat on one of the guys in the front vehicle he looks like an Aussie.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_schleppers_captured_at_el_alamein.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_lorraine.jpg

Broader view of captured vehicles at El Alamein - shows some extent of the armour losses.. (I also noticed the anti-aircraft MG mount on the turret of the MkIII in the foreground).
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_schlepper_and_mk111.jpg


References:

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/n … -135-1.php
 
Armor of the Deutches Afrikakorps by Tom Cockle, Concord Publications (2000) pp. 50-51.

Last edited by Markus (07-09-2018 07:27:15)

Offline

 

#15 27-08-2018 14:21:03

RRA227
Supreme DAK Member
From: Hokendauqua.Pa. U.S.A.
Registered: 23-06-2011
Posts: 1535

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

great pics.  Rich A. in Pa.


1969 Shelby GT-500 King of the Road
Knowledge is power, guard it well.

Offline

 

#16 29-08-2018 01:54:53

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 599

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

I believe this one is a one off example from North Africa, a PAK38 50mm mounted on the hull of a Sd.Kfz. 231 eight wheeled armoured car.

Looks like a field workshop solution - perhaps the armoured car turret had been damaged or otherwise removed, resulting in this visually awkward arrangement.

I think the brackets welded on the front of the hull were only used as a barrel locking mechanism, which prevented the barrel from swinging around
when the vehicle was not in action.

Regards Markus.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_pak38_mounted_on_sdkfz_231.jpg

Last edited by Markus (29-08-2018 01:56:03)

Offline

 

#17 29-08-2018 02:45:46

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 582

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

I'm thinking the reason so many vehicles and tanks were captured was due to a lack of fuel resulting in them been left behind
That  Sd.Kfz. 231 with the PAK38 50mm mounted on it would be one death trap if it took a direct hit
Thanks for posting Markus, great photos
MSteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

Offline

 

#18 29-08-2018 03:36:39

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 599

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Yes, you'd have to be a pretty brave man to serve on that PAK38.   With a high silhouette and exposed gun firing position you'd be pretty vulnerable
to anything that was flying around on the battlefield....

Markus

Offline

 

#19 29-08-2018 14:10:35

RRA227
Supreme DAK Member
From: Hokendauqua.Pa. U.S.A.
Registered: 23-06-2011
Posts: 1535

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Nice pic.  Rich A. in Pa.


1969 Shelby GT-500 King of the Road
Knowledge is power, guard it well.

Offline

 

#20 31-08-2018 06:31:26

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 599

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Just found this Australian War Memorial photo of Australian officers inspecting a Diana which was captured by the Australian 2/3 Anti Tank Regiment near Tel el Eisa in mid 1942.

The officer on top of the vehicle was Brigadier A.H.L. Godfrey, DSO & Bar, MC, MiD who only a few months later was the most senior Australian officer killed at the Battle of El Alamein (DOW 4/11/42).  Regards Markus.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_inspecting_captured_diana.jpg

I've also found this interesting fact sheet on the Diana from the AWM, which provides more details on this vehicle.  Apparently the above Diana was knocked out by 11 Battery, 2/3 Anti-Tank Regiment on 19 July 1942, during the First Battle of El Alamein. 

If you're interested in the fact sheet, click here smile https://www.awm.gov.au/system/files/doc … iana_0.pdf

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_diana_overview.jpg

Last edited by Markus (11-09-2018 05:34:49)

Offline

 

#21 31-08-2018 12:55:35

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 599

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Another rare vehicle, the 7.5 cm Sfl L/40.8, which mounted a L/40 PAK in a rotating turret on a Buessing-NAG 5 ton half track. 
One prototype was used in North Africa.

Regards Markus.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_panzer_sfl_ii.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_panzer_sfl_ii_4.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_panzer_sfl_ii_3.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_panzer_sfl_ii_2.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_panzer_sfl_ii_7.jpg

Offline

 

#22 31-08-2018 15:09:08

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1244
Website

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Wow! Really like the first photo!! Thanks for posting!

Offline

 

#23 31-08-2018 15:17:10

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 599

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Thanks Baron smile

One more before I 'hit the hay' - the old Sd.Kfz. 254 manufactured by the Austrian company of Saurer.  This was a complex vehicle,
which could run on wheels or tracks.  A total of 128 were manufactured but only a small number (perhaps as few as 2 or 3) served in North Africa.

Regards Markus..

The vehicle immediately below (licence plate 616664) was used as an observation vehicle by Pz.Art.Rgt. 33 of 15 Panzer Division and was captured at El Alamein in October 1942.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_sdkfz254.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_sdkfz_254_02.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_sdkfz_254_3.jpg

I'm not sure of the details of the stripped vehicle below but you can see that the licence plate is only a few digits different to the Pz.Art.Rgt. 33 vehicle.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_sdkfz_254_4.jpg

Last edited by Markus (01-09-2018 11:37:41)

Offline

 

#24 01-09-2018 07:43:50

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 599

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Another unusual vehicle seen in North Africa - the Landwasserschlepper.  Regards Markus.

The photo immediately below was developed from film taken from the camera of a German soldier captured by Australian troops in North Africa during July 1942.  It is a partial double exposure.. (source: AWM).
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_landwasserschlepper_5.jpg

Other photo's of the LWS in use in North Africa.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_landwasser_schlepper_africa_2.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_landwasserschlepper_africa_3.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_landwasserschlepper_4.jpg

Last edited by Markus (01-09-2018 07:46:52)

Offline

 

#25 01-09-2018 12:28:39

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 599

Re: Rare German Equipment Used in North Africa.

Just a few more photos of the Bison II, which used the lengthen superstructure of the Pz II.

Regards Markus

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_1.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_2.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_6.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_7.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_8.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_9.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_10.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_11.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_12.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_13.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_14.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_destroyed_1.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_bison_ii_destroyed_2.jpg


There is another similar vehicle, where the 15 cm sIG 33 was mounted on the chassis of a Panzer III Ausf H.  Only
one such modification was made in North Africa... easiest way to tell the difference between the Bison II and this
very rare variation is to look at the road wheels smile

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_15_cm_on_panzer_iii_first.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_15_cm_on_pz_iii.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_15cm_on_pz_iii_2.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_15_cm_on_pz_iii_3.jpg

Last edited by Markus (11-12-2018 07:25:57)

Offline

 

Board footer

Créez Votre Propre Forum
Insérer vos Graphiques
Dictionnaires de Traduction
Hébergé par ForumCrea.com