AFRIKA KORPS FORUM

Mon image

You are not logged in.

Announcement

New Forum about the DAK and Tropical German army, and Allied army in WW2 only

#1 02-05-2019 11:27:25

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 750

Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Posting for Mark , the first post has disappeared ??????

Tunic and Belt photos, if anyone can identify the makers name on the tunic or belt please advise

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_101354aaaa.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_101649aaaa.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_101911aaa.jpg

Belt photos

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_102528aaaa.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_102614aaaa.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_102604aaaa.jpg

Hopefully this post won't disappear smile

MSteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

Offline

 

#2 02-05-2019 12:43:17

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Thanks Mario and Mark for a great post - what a find yikes

I think I have had some luck with the web belt, you undoubtedly know that the buckle and leather tab
are both from manufacturer Noelle & Hueck of Lüdenscheid. 

The web belt itself is constructed of the mid war (probably 1942) finer web weave.

I think that I have a 1941 dated belt by the same manufacturer, but mine is the earlier larger weave.  I've sat here
for a while trying to make out the ink stamp and trying to get some decent photo's. 

Unfortunately I can't be a hundred percent sure but it looks to read 'Carl Kopling & Co'.  Sorry I can't make out the second line,
which is probably the town where this manufacturer was located.  The third line is obviously the year.

I think if you look at the stamp on your belt Mario you may be able to see the '& Co' at the end of the first line of the ink stamp.

Here are the best photo's I was able to take... neutral

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_carl_kopling_1.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_kopling_belt_3.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_kopling_stamp.jpg


The stamp on the tunic is possibly going to be a little more difficult....

Looks to be three line stamp - a wild punt and probably wrong but I believe that Peek & Cloppenburg used to
ink stamp their manufacturer details on the inside front flap of some tunics, near the front buttons.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_peek_cloppenberg_stamp.jpg

Anyone else with any ideas? hmm

Regards Markus

Last edited by Markus (03-05-2019 07:25:53)

Offline

 

#3 02-05-2019 14:08:09

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Hey guys, are we able to get any clearer images of the tunic manufacturer stamp (near the button S rings)?

Also, any photo's of the size and depot stamps if possible?

Thanks very much,

Markus

Offline

 

#4 02-05-2019 17:30:13

wuestenfuchs88
Confirmed DAK Member
Registered: 18-01-2015
Posts: 177

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Hey Guys, Thanks a Lot for your coments, I don't know were the earlier post has gone? Markus I think you are right about the maker of the Webbingbelt, I hardly can se a "&CO" on it, don't kno about the Jacket maker?, was Peek & Kloppenburg the only maker with 3 lines in there markings? I also just saw a sisze stamp is also on it, but nearly not more visible hardly I can see 96 or 98

Offline

 

#5 02-05-2019 23:00:43

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 750

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

I've placed the two maker stamps side by side for comparison

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_101911aaaa.jpg

Personally I'm of two minds if its a Peek stamp neutral

Cheers
MSteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

Offline

 

#6 03-05-2019 00:14:31

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Msteve21, I think you're probably right - not Peek & Cloppenburg.  Was discussing this with DAK D (Dermot) last night. 

Wuestenfuchs88, Peek & Cloppenburg immediately came to mind when I saw the positioning of the stamp, however the lettering
pattern doesn't match up.  Anyone else aware of makers who used a three line ink stamp and concealed it within the front button
flap (presumably to protect their logo and prevent it from being worn off quickly). 

Below is a close up photo and what I think some of the letters may be.. top line possibly two surname manufacturer with '&' between the surnames.
Maybe 'uniformfabrik' or town of manufacturer on second line?
Street address ending in number (looks like short group of 2 or 3 digits) at the end of third line?  Any thoughts anyone?

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_stamp_detail.jpg

The other distinctive feature is the lack of reinforcing stitching rows normally seen of the back of the collar. 

Dermot also mentioned that from the larger shadows where the collar litzen once sat it looks like this was probably
an officer's tunic for some time before it was stripped...

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_litzen_shadows.jpg

Regards Markus

Last edited by Markus (03-05-2019 03:11:26)

Offline

 

#7 03-05-2019 05:45:50

wuestenfuchs88
Confirmed DAK Member
Registered: 18-01-2015
Posts: 177

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Good Morning Guys,

I gess also its an ather Maker, couse the middle Row is too short and the 3rd. row is to long for a Peek and Cloppenburg, about the collertabs I also gess the guy was promoted to an officer, at the left Sleeve the sit of a Chevron is still visible.

About the  Maker of the Webbingbellt I couldent find anything on the Net about him, I tried Kopling, Kepling Nepling etc .

Offline

 

#8 03-05-2019 06:57:19

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Yes I tried also to find something on the name Kopling without any luck.  Not unusual though for web articles as the ink stamps wore off very quickly.   
Even in mint condition they can be hard to read due to the ink stamp being impressed on an uneven surface...

Does your belt have a red size stamp on the end near where the tongue with the holes to fit the belt buckle sits?  Have a look at my photo's below...

You may have to look carefully as the size stamp may be very worn judging from the manufacturer stamp.

Cheers Markus

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_whole_belt.jpg


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_belt_ends.jpg

Last edited by Markus (03-05-2019 07:37:06)

Offline

 

#9 03-05-2019 11:14:48

wuestenfuchs88
Confirmed DAK Member
Registered: 18-01-2015
Posts: 177

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

My one has also size 90 (winklollol) but in blue or black Ink stamped. I sendet Pictures to Mark, He told me also how to resize them, so I will try on Monday in my office, but I let do it my Sekretary, she is better in that wink  SO Funny this Wordgames with two meanings!lollol
The Tongue where the Buckleprongs fit in is also round at my belt, not rectangular like yours!

Last edited by wuestenfuchs88 (03-05-2019 11:21:29)

Offline

 

#10 03-05-2019 14:14:08

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Thanks, I've just had a look at my belts and probably a mix of 50/50 round and rectangular ends - also a mix of black and red size stamps. 
Some have leather trims, another reinforced cloth so it appears there are lots of variations.

A number of the belts that I have are still manufacturer marked but not readable - the one I've posted is the closest format to the stamp on your belt, so we'll see
if any others appear.big_smile

Cheers Markus

Offline

 

#11 03-05-2019 23:24:23

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 750

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Here the other belt photos from Mario

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_102511aaaa.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_102441aaaa.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_102707aaaa.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_102445aaaa.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_102428aaaa.jpg

Cheers
MSteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

Offline

 

#12 03-05-2019 23:39:45

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 750

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Here the reverse of the collar

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_1017050aaaa.jpg

Seen this style of construction on continental tunics, first one I've encounter on a tropical tunic

Mario can you measure the outline shadow on the front, the size should confirm if the tunic had officer tabs

Photo of box as found by Mario in Barn

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_095004.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_100424aaaa.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_20190423_095034aaaa.jpg

Cheers  smile
MSteve

Last edited by msteve21 (03-05-2019 23:44:07)


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

Offline

 

#13 04-05-2019 01:03:43

Bulldog
New Member
Registered: 11-09-2017
Posts: 1

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

You always here about "Barn Finds", but this one sure is legit.  Thanks for sharing.

Offline

 

#14 04-05-2019 03:23:10

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Hi Wuestenfuchs88,

Even though the size and depot stamps on the tunic may be faded, are you able to take your best photo/s and send
these to msteve21 so that we can have a look at these once they're posted on the Forum. 

These stamps themselves together with other features of the tunic may help in the identification of the manufacturer.

Vielen Dank!

Markus

Bulldog, welcome to the Forum smile

Offline

 

#15 04-05-2019 06:01:10

wuestenfuchs88
Confirmed DAK Member
Registered: 18-01-2015
Posts: 177

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Good Morning Guys,

Pictures on there way

Offline

 

#16 04-05-2019 06:37:36

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 750

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Pictures arrived, will resize and post shortly
Cheers
MSteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

Offline

 

#17 04-05-2019 07:13:17

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 750

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Firstly one problem solved

Mario positioned tunic with outside of collar showing when photographing the interior. This gave the impression that the reverse of the collar lacked the reinforced stitching. I done a compassion photos to show what I mean
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_pic-1bbbb.jpg

The collar does have reinforce stitching as seen in this photo Mario has sent
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_pic-2bbbb.jpg
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_pic-3bbbb.jpg

Cheers  smile
MSteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

Offline

 

#18 04-05-2019 07:26:00

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Thanks mSteve21 big_smile

Cheers Markus

Offline

 

#19 04-05-2019 07:35:56

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 750

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Next up is measurements of collar tabs

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_pic-7bbbb.jpg

I've done a comparison against Office tab and standard EM tropical tab
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_pic-5bbbb.jpg
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_pic-6bbbb.jpg

Neither measurements match Marios tunic,  not officer as they are consist in size and width.
Possibly could be the later version of the EM tab??, I don't have one to compare it with.

Alternatively or Luftwaffe tabs, maybe someone can measure up comparison

Look forward to what other may think

MSteve    smile

Last edited by msteve21 (04-05-2019 08:26:03)


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

Offline

 

#20 04-05-2019 07:43:20

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 750

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Mario, last one is I assume is the size stamp?
unfortunately unable to lift up the black ink, too faded
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_pic-8bbbb.jpg

MSteve smile

Last edited by msteve21 (04-05-2019 07:43:59)


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

Offline

 

#21 04-05-2019 08:28:22

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

I've just read on one online source black Panzer tab 3.5 cm x 7.5 cm ....

https://panzerworld.com/uniforms-heer-black

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_panzer_kragenspiel.jpg


I think from memory NZMark has a tunic with these tabs attached?

Was also thinking maybe Sonderfuhrer tabs but then wouldn't have a chevron mark on the sleeve..


Markus

Last edited by Markus (04-05-2019 10:54:34)

Offline

 

#22 04-05-2019 08:38:45

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Is it possible that the ink is dark purple? 

Or maybe my eyes are playing tricks and it is faded black hmm

Markus

Offline

 

#23 04-05-2019 09:34:11

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 750

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Markus

I've adjusted the colour in the photo to try and highlight the ink in Photoshop
here the original photo from Mario
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_pic-9bbbb.jpg

Ink colour indeterminable IMO as camera has distorted tunic colour due to incorrect colour balance in its setting

Cheers
MSteve  smile

Last edited by msteve21 (04-05-2019 09:37:07)


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

Offline

 

#24 04-05-2019 10:33:30

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Thanks, mSteve21 smile

I think that the bottom row of the stamp on Mario's tunic might have a B and then a gap followed by maybe a 4?  ...if so Berlin depot?

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_mario_tunic_stamp_b_4.jpg

Regards Markus

Last edited by Markus (04-05-2019 10:40:31)

Offline

 

#25 04-05-2019 12:25:39

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 750

Re: Austrian Barn Find DAK Tunic & Belt

Markus
I'm thinking a possibly of service in Tunisia  (Pz Blt 501, 8th Pz Rgt) or 16th Pz Divison in Italy

The green belt buckle maybe a good indicator of service in one of these, just a though

Doubt if its Berlin marked, stamp should be..B 41, no gap between the b and year, only a space

Regarding manfacture stamp there on page 108 of Kurtz book, top row middle photo, hard to read but a possiblty

Another one is in Figueroa book on Tropical uniforms, page 120. Luftwaffe tunic with a 3 line manafacturers stamp.

One can conclude from this that a data base of tropical tunic manafacturers would be a helpfull research tool (hint hint Markus, when you get back from holidays wink )

Cheers
Msteve  smile

Last edited by msteve21 (04-05-2019 12:27:38)


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

Offline

 

Board footer

Créez Votre Propre Forum
Insérer vos Graphiques
Dictionnaires de Traduction
Hébergé par ForumCrea.com