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#1 07-01-2019 19:47:21

Marseille42
DAK Member
Registered: 29-09-2018
Posts: 87

M42 Tunic Opinions

Hello Guys,

got offered this tunic, problem is i only have this bad pictures i can look at it in hand later but i will only drive there when there is a chance wink the eagle is detached but also available

maybe a jacket from a soldier who went home from pow etc ?

any help will be usefull


https://i.ibb.co/zZs869j/57-1.jpg https://i.ibb.co/KDj0KND/57-2.jpg https://i.ibb.co/nqX1ff9/57-3.jpg https://i.ibb.co/44gYsTD/57-4.jpg https://i.ibb.co/0sBL6rZ/57-5.jpg https://i.ibb.co/T1TkLn7/57-6.jpg https://i.ibb.co/FnnVy4Y/57-7.jpg https://i.ibb.co/x6MbxNx/57-8.jpg https://i.ibb.co/JzXFVsf/57-9.jpg https://i.ibb.co/XXTKkK7/57-10.jpg https://i.ibb.co/SVbK5GH/57-11.jpg https://i.ibb.co/m8FXtxQ/57-12.jpg https://i.ibb.co/k03NvW1/57-13.jpg https://i.ibb.co/k1ZpQgt/57-14.jpg https://i.ibb.co/2dytvcS/57-15.jpg https://i.ibb.co/4jG5gXJ/57-16.jpg https://i.ibb.co/MgRvccD/57-17.jpg https://i.ibb.co/kqhQdxt/57-18.jpg https://i.ibb.co/pLdQS4M/57-19.jpg

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#2 08-01-2019 03:14:05

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 751

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

At first glance it looked to be a aged reproduction or modified1st pattern tunic  (Thx to Markus) who has pointed out the lapel button hole which is an anomaly and my concern the size stamps, the line between the sizes on LHS is something I've not seen before. Not keen on the wear to the collar as well.

I wouldn't been rushing in to buy this tunic with seeing better photos.

As too the lapel button hole, I have one on a officer tropical tunic which was possible added to keep the wearer warm during cold desert nights

look forwarded to hearing what others may have to say

Cheers
MSteve

Last edited by msteve21 (08-01-2019 03:15:21)


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

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#3 08-01-2019 05:12:40

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Hi Max, I agree that it would be better to have some clearer photos.  Some sellers really do themselves no favours by not providing good photos.

As msteve21 has mentioned the presence of the extra button on the tunic (to allow the collar to be closed like a standard continental tunic) is
unusual on a first pattern tunic.

We have however seen this feature on what appears to be a second pattern tunic previously....please have a look at
this link to see the details: http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/viewtopic.php?id=595 


Regards Markus

Last edited by Markus (08-01-2019 07:43:14)

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#4 08-01-2019 07:55:18

Marseille42
DAK Member
Registered: 29-09-2018
Posts: 87

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

The reproductions have this extra button ?

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#5 08-01-2019 09:28:01

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Not the ones I've seen - such as the Konrad Tiedt & Co. Hannover B40, which often is mistaken as original.

Looking at yours again it looks like the pebbled buttons are ok - they appear to have right sort of paint loss and at least the lining to insides of pocket flaps and interior
wound pocket is in a different fabric.  It also looks like insignia has been attached at some stage.  The stitching detail that I can see in some photo's like the lower skirt pockets
looks to be right.

The biggest problem as you've pointed out in your posting is the blurred photos provided by the seller.       

Has anyone else have any comment on the extra collar closure button?   Apart from msteve21's field modification is this a feature seen
regularly on first pattern tunics, especially those worn in North Africa?

NZMark?


Regards Markus

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#6 08-01-2019 09:47:56

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 751

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

The reproductions have this extra button ?

Short answer is no, the extra button hole possibly field added so the collar can close to protect against the cold

There is one added to this 1st pattern officer tropical tunic, no button attached to the other side, may have fallen off many years ago

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/75_dak-1bb.jpg

Msteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

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#7 08-01-2019 12:55:57

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

The only tunic that I’ve only ever really noticed before that had the additional collar button hole being factory sewn is described as the
M43 tunic or 4th pattern tunic, which has the same unpleated pockets and square flaps as the 3rd pattern tropical tunic.   One was posted a while ago by
member zip3120 and is constructed of Italian cloth:  http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/viewtopic.php?id=2277

Here’s another one that I found with the more conventional tropical twill: https://fjm44.com/product/unissued-tropical-m43-tunic/ 

Regards Markus

Last edited by Markus (11-01-2019 02:44:02)

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#8 08-01-2019 13:10:45

Marseille42
DAK Member
Registered: 29-09-2018
Posts: 87

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Ok so the extra button is not a problem..


i try to get the jacket ..

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#9 08-01-2019 13:15:57

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

I would first ask a couple of things:  does seller have a photo of the eagle badge this will be a good indication of whether legitimate? 

What is the sellers return policy?  What is the price?  Is this a dealer or private seller and do they have a reputation in the collecting community.

These are some of the things I personally would like to know before I would commit....especially as these things cost a reasonable amount of money.

Markus

Last edited by Markus (08-01-2019 13:21:20)

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#10 08-01-2019 13:47:56

Marseille42
DAK Member
Registered: 29-09-2018
Posts: 87

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Markus wrote:

I would first ask a couple of things:  does seller have a photo of the eagle badge this will be a good indication of whether legitimate? 

What is the sellers return policy?  What is the price?  Is this a dealer or private seller and do they have a reputation in the collecting community.

These are some of the things I personally would like to know before I would commit....especially as these things cost a reasonable amount of money.

Markus

Hey Markus,

Its a privat seller and i will pick it up personally

IF the seller writes back ...

Best regards


max

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#11 10-01-2019 05:29:30

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Ok, good luck Max - at least you can examine it in person and are not relying solely on photo's.

Regards Markus.

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#12 10-01-2019 09:41:58

Marseille42
DAK Member
Registered: 29-09-2018
Posts: 87

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Markus wrote:

Ok, good luck Max - at least you can examine it in person and are not relying solely on photo's.

Regards Markus.

Hey Markus,


Yes but i think i have not enough knowlage for that big_smile

I will study a few topics here for the 1st pattern and then i hope i get some luck also

Best regards

Max

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#13 10-01-2019 10:40:51

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Hi Max,

I'd suggest you also have a look at the Virtual Grenadier website - there are some very good detailed photos of tunics
that have been listed for sale there and many people use these images for reference.  The owner of this website is highly
respected in the collector community.

Just search on the words "tropical Heer blouse" and you will get those items that have been listed (sold and for sale).

Hopefully if you click on this link you should see what I mean.

https://www.virtualgrenadier.com/saleli … eer+blouse

Cheers Markus

Last edited by Markus (10-01-2019 10:42:11)

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#14 10-01-2019 19:48:01

Marseille42
DAK Member
Registered: 29-09-2018
Posts: 87

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Markus wrote:

Hi Max,

I'd suggest you also have a look at the Virtual Grenadier website - there are some very good detailed photos of tunics
that have been listed for sale there and many people use these images for reference.  The owner of this website is highly
respected in the collector community.

Just search on the words "tropical Heer blouse" and you will get those items that have been listed (sold and for sale).

Hopefully if you click on this link you should see what I mean.

https://www.virtualgrenadier.com/saleli … eer+blouse

Cheers Markus

Hey,

yes a great page, i ordered a helmet there last year.

i looked at many 1st pattern there and on the WAF forum, i think the tunic is not so bad ..

i´m only waiting for the call ...

regards max

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#15 11-01-2019 00:55:39

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Despite the blurred photos I agree it has a chance.  You've probably thought of this but apart from checking the normal features,
I'd be looking closely at the extra collar button hole - it may be a later addition like msteve21's.

The extra pebbled collar button on the tunic you're looking at appears to have remnants of the lighter olive paint used on first, second and some
third pattern tunics.

I have a 1943 dated third pattern tunic and all of the pebbled buttons have the darker grey finish - this new paint colour was introduced
that year as Germany moved into it's total war mode.   

Cheers Markus.

Last edited by Markus (11-01-2019 13:22:46)

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#16 25-01-2019 21:16:34

Marseille42
DAK Member
Registered: 29-09-2018
Posts: 87

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Additional pictures

https://i.ibb.co/Jn6jTLd/0-B574-CFF-1-A69-4-C67-82-AB-B33-DC9-F19672.jpg https://i.ibb.co/B3ZzGVb/72-F794-B7-8200-449-E-B444-4-BC4516913-F9.jpg https://i.ibb.co/SdFKPZB/0-CC8-ADE9-5-A21-47-AD-A342-EAC569-DF1177.png https://i.ibb.co/zSQ2z5g/11-C26465-D466-4780-BE81-F157-ABE78-F4-E.png https://i.ibb.co/fSjCwVL/C9104-BC5-5-B4-A-4905-8313-E816219920-DE.png https://i.ibb.co/Gx4g3TP/A26-B96-A4-7392-4-B3-F-AFEF-1-C59937-C6096.png https://i.ibb.co/fkb0TNB/820-D6-B7-A-C505-4089-85-B5-033499-DC1-C88.png https://i.ibb.co/L1kypKQ/C1-DD1-E12-D4-FD-421-F-9-C3-D-A420-C93-A8370.png

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#17 25-01-2019 21:23:02

Marseille42
DAK Member
Registered: 29-09-2018
Posts: 87

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

When i dont buy it soon, it goes to australia .. roll so who is it ?

Last edited by Marseille42 (26-01-2019 00:10:53)

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#18 25-01-2019 21:29:13

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 751

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Not me, but you certainly want to do a hands on inspection, hopefully the seller offers a refund for the buyer if its not correct
MSteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

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#19 25-01-2019 22:23:06

Marseille42
DAK Member
Registered: 29-09-2018
Posts: 87

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Only personal pickup, tomorrow ..

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#20 25-01-2019 22:52:42

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Hi Max, also not me - but there are a few German tropical uniform collectors in Australia...

The eagle looks ok from the front but it appears to have been tacked at some stage to a board or something - it's likely that you've
seen the three marks.

Seller's photos still not the greatest but it looks like it has a chance of being ok.   With the extra button hole on the collar just
look to see if the hole stitching and cotton is different as this could confirm field modification.

Looking at the wear on the collar, there should be similar wear to the edges of the arm cuffs, where the tunic rubbed as it was worn.  If it
was worn with field equipment you may find evidence of wear around the waist where the belt rubbed against the fabric near the button holes
are.

Also if it all looks to be in order see if seller has the collar litzen, because used original examples are hard to come by - from my experience can be
more difficult than the brust adler.

Good luck - do you mind disclosing how much seller is asking as well?

Regards Markus

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#21 25-01-2019 23:41:07

Marseille42
DAK Member
Registered: 29-09-2018
Posts: 87

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Markus wrote:

Hi Max, also not me - but there are a few German tropical uniform collectors in Australia...

The eagle looks ok from the front but it appears to have been tacked at some stage to a board or something - it's likely that you've
seen the three marks.

Seller's photos still not the greatest but it looks like it has a chance of being ok.   With the extra button hole on the collar just
look to see if the hole stitching and cotton is different as this could confirm field modification.

Looking at the wear on the collar, there should be similar wear to the edges of the arm cuffs, where the tunic rubbed as it was worn.  If it
was worn with field equipment you may find evidence of wear around the waist where the belt rubbed against the fabric near the button holes
are.

Also if it all looks to be in order see if seller has the collar litzen, because used original examples are hard to come by - from my experience can be
more difficult than the brust adler.

Good luck - do you mind disclosing how much seller is asking as well?

Regards Markus

Hello Markus, that helps alot ! Thank you, it will cost 780€, with eagle

Last edited by Marseille42 (25-01-2019 23:43:18)

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#22 26-01-2019 00:35:29

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Hi Max,

If everything checks out ok IMO that is a good price with the breast eagle included. 

I'm sure that you have done so, but just have a quick look at the reverse of some original breast eagles
on the forum and WAF so you are familiar with what they look like.

Viel Glück und schönes Wochenende smile

Markus

Last edited by Markus (26-01-2019 00:41:31)

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#23 26-01-2019 00:42:23

Marseille42
DAK Member
Registered: 29-09-2018
Posts: 87

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Thanks all, we write tomorrow when i got it / or not smile

Ebenfalls ein schönes wochenende

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#24 26-01-2019 00:47:23

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 911

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

Ok!

PS. The boots have arrived so I will have a new posting myself soon.

Markus

Last edited by Markus (26-01-2019 00:47:39)

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#25 29-01-2019 02:43:42

NZMark
Moderator
From: New Zealand
Registered: 08-04-2011
Posts: 1122

Re: M42 Tunic Opinions

It's an original tunic from what I can see. I would think the shoulder strap bridles have been replaced, though.
The added neck closure on tropical tunics is not common, but certainly was done. Just check that the stitching of the button-hole is hand done...
Regards,
Mark
NZ


Student & Collector of WWII German Tropical Militaria

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