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#1 21-08-2018 12:34:31

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 546

Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

Hi, here are some photos of a recent addition to my collection - a German mess kit (Kochgeschirr 31) marked for manufacturer MKL (Max Kamper of Lüdenscheid) and dated ‘39. 

I’ve also included some photo’s of other related items in this post.

Regards Markus.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02801.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02804.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02802.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02803.jpg

Promotional material for manufacturer Max Kamper.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_max_kamper_cropped.jpg

Reverse of the mess kit, showing the scratched initials of a previous owner on the top and bottom sections - 'KK'.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02805.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02806.jpg

Mess kit with a fat container and 1940 dated spoon / fork combination (Göffel).
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02808.jpg

Soldier's name scratched into the handle of the spoon / fork combination - 'Krahl'.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02809.jpg

Spoon / fork combo marked for manufacturer H.H.L. and dated 1940.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02812.jpg

Mess tin mounted on the tropical A frame assault rig
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02796.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02798.jpg

Reverse of the A frame
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02800.jpg

Period photo of the A-frame being worn in North Africa (Rommel's Army in Africa by Dal McGuirk p. 158)
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02820.jpg

Fitted to a tropical bread bag with a tropical equipment strap.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02813.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02814.jpg

In case you're wondering you need an equipment strap at least 57 cm long to fit the mess kit wink
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02817.jpg

The equipment strap manufacturer's details are often embossed on the tip on the inside of the leather strap - in this
instance L.L.G. of Thüringen and dated 1941.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02782.jpg

A comparison of the different paint colours for the early grey and later olive drab M31 aluminium mess tins.  The Kochgeschirr on the left is
marked ESB42 and painted in olive drab.
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02815.jpg   

And finally a shot of some mess tins in use...Der alte Mann ist sehr lecker!
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_mess_tin.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_mess_tin_2.jpg

Last edited by Markus (23-09-2018 11:59:33)

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#2 21-08-2018 13:17:56

RRA227
Supreme DAK Member
From: Hokendauqua.Pa. U.S.A.
Registered: 23-06-2011
Posts: 1511

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

Great post.  Rich A. in Pa.


1969 Shelby GT-500 King of the Road
Knowledge is power, guard it well.

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#3 21-08-2018 18:50:37

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1226
Website

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

Nice acquisitions! I still haven't been able to obtain one of the red interior tropical model mess kits. Are they in the same category as the bakelite covered tropical canteens that we rarely find in Africa?   Barron

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#4 21-08-2018 21:10:02

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2522

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

Very nice and informative thread as usual Mark. Thanks for your effort.
Baron the red interior examples you mentioned are not late war production? If i am not mistaken there were not specific mess tins issued for tropical use.


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http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_signature_photo.jpg

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#5 21-08-2018 23:39:29

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 546

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

Hi Chris, my understanding is that the red paint was a form of primer that was sprayed on the later war steel
versions.


Regards Markus.

Last edited by Markus (24-08-2018 06:26:04)

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#6 22-08-2018 01:11:12

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1226
Website

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

I thought I had seen a couple of examples on this site when I first started posting. Also a couple of examples showed up on E-Bay that went for over $200 USD when nice continentals might cost $50. I have a large olive steel canteen cup with red interior but as you mentioned it is late war dated 1944.   Barron

I just checked and there is a nice 1943 dated steel with olive and red interior by that THOMs had posted.

Last edited by Rebbaron55 (22-08-2018 01:16:12)

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#7 22-08-2018 03:01:11

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 546

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

No worries Barron smile

I've just found that even MKL started making steel mess kits sometime in 1942 so we are all learning something here....
https://militariaplaza.nl/equipment-22/ … -31-detail

I also found this link to be helpful regarding the humble mess kit...
http://www.dererstezug.com/kochgeschirr.htm 

With a lot of sellers on eBay they will say that something is DAK, Afrikakorps or even now just German tropical to get a premium price. For some time
many have been including DAK in their title description just to attract buyers for something which is not even tropical - or even German in fact.

PS I checked your thread on tobacco products and you've now got over 10,000 views.  What a great result for you
and other members who have contributed to this popular topic big_smile

Markus

Last edited by Markus (22-08-2018 03:23:38)

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#8 22-08-2018 03:24:08

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 571

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

Thanks Markus for posting this informative thread
Msteve


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
Great Southern Land

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#9 22-08-2018 03:47:11

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1226
Website

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

Thank you Markus for being so quick to check things out! smile I really appreciate you all on this site as I try to check it 2-3 times daily now that I am retired! big_smile Nice to see we are getting new postings frequently!   Barron

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#10 22-08-2018 04:21:06

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 546

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

No problems Barron, thankfully I am also retired and hopefully now that some troublesome health problems are
largely behind me will continue to post items in my collection and contribute to other member's postings when possible.

Best regards Markus

Last edited by Markus (22-08-2018 13:09:00)

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#11 22-08-2018 06:22:40

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 546

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

The manufacturer of the fork / spoon combo (Göffel) marked H.H.L. 40 was cutlery manufacturer Heinrich Haupt of Lüdenscheid...

Regards Markus

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_dsc02812.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_hhl_2.jpg

Last edited by Markus (22-08-2018 06:23:38)

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#12 23-08-2018 06:58:45

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 546

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

Thanks to the forum members who've posted comments smile

Regards Markus.

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#13 23-08-2018 09:07:29

KeithTurner
New Member
From: Essex, UK
Registered: 26-07-2018
Posts: 18
Website

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

Thank you Markus for the informative thread.

After the movie and book I would like to find an item manufactured by the company run by Oscar Schindler...

Enjoy the hobby, Keith

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#14 23-08-2018 10:49:57

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 546

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

Hi Keith, I’ve had a very quick look – Schindler operated the Deutsche Emailwarenfabrik (DEF) plant in Poland. 
Apparently they manufactured a range of civilian and military items, including canteens and mess kits for the German military forces of the time. 

Three digit code also MTD?

Anyway, here are a few links that may be of interest…

I'm assuming you may have known something already about the links from DEF to messkits and water canteens from
the film?

Regards Markus   

https://www.ferromil.de/2-emaile-cups-m … anguage=en

https://www.ferromil.de/Collectibles/Co … anguage=en

http://www.oldmilitaria.pl/original-mil … -schindler

https://fjm44.com/articles/m42-canteen- … schindler/

https://fjm44.com/articles/equipment/me … kit-deutsc

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2587_def.jpg

Last edited by Markus (23-08-2018 12:23:10)

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#15 23-08-2018 22:12:51

KeithTurner
New Member
From: Essex, UK
Registered: 26-07-2018
Posts: 18
Website

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

Markus thank you for the information and links.

I was tempted by one of the mugs but will look for a waterbottle or mess tin...

Enjoy the hobby, Keith

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#16 23-08-2018 23:33:21

Markus
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 24-10-2014
Posts: 546

Re: Kochgeschirr 31 marked MKL39

No worries Keith.

It's apparent from looking at the mess kit examples from DEF that there were some variations to the standard finish.  I suppose this was
a consequence of using small companies to produce wartime items.

Thanks for steering me towards Schindler's products - again I have learned something new smile

Regards Markus

Last edited by Markus (24-08-2018 02:32:31)

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