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#1 29-09-2015 23:47:38

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 580

Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

Hi guys

Saw this tunic recently that a friend brought back from Germany

keen to know what other think of backing material to collar tabs and breast eagle and shoulder boards application

Having handled it, I'm of two opinions as to whether its a postwar put together or period original

If it was postwar, why would you bother applying the collar tabs like that?

Mark S



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#2 30-09-2015 09:40:41

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2526

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

Hi Mark, thanks for posting this beautiful tunic.

The application of the shoulders looks professionally done.

The Litzen are very odd applied like that. It's not very clear in the photo but the pattern of the fabric looks like the one on the photo below. If so the backing fabric is original period. The question is indeed why to apply them like that?

Maybe a personal preference of the tailor or ignorance of a faker? hmm

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_1331.jpg

Last edited by don_kihotis7 (30-09-2015 09:41:22)


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#3 30-09-2015 13:08:22

CABrown
DAK Member
From: Texas
Registered: 22-06-2015
Posts: 64

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

The backing material on the collar tabs looks like HBT (herring-bone twill) which could certainly be period, but why?!?!?!?

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#4 30-09-2015 14:33:15

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2526

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

Hmmm indeed it looks more like HBT hmm

Maybe the condition of the tabs were bad, falling apart on the reverse and they needed to be sewn on a backing fabric? Just a thought.


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#5 01-10-2015 07:37:03

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 580

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

In hand the backing material looks like a cotton drill or  HBT, very similar to tropical tunic fabric

Any thoughts on eagle application, IMO someone went to a lot of work to hand sew it on like that, would be quicker to straight stitch apply and just as effective

Mark S


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#6 01-10-2015 13:53:36

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2526

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

Thanks for the clarification of the backing material Mark.

To be honest i haven't seen this kind of application on breast eagles. It was a lot of work indeed and i am wondering why the person who did it did all the effort not to penetrate the lining hmm


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#7 02-10-2015 04:16:28

NZMark
Moderator
From: New Zealand
Registered: 08-04-2011
Posts: 1096

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

Mark,
If you take a look at the sewing on the inside for the boards, does the thread match the eagle or the litzen sewing....?
Regards,
Mark


Student & Collector of WWII German Tropical Militaria

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#8 02-10-2015 12:41:15

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 580

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

Yes Mark, same thread is used for application of all three pieces of insignia

What caught my attention is the thread  a perfect match to thread  used to construct the DAK tunic

For example; matches 100% thread used under the collar lining as against the tabs, eagle and boards

If insignia was period done, I'd lean towards it been more an Italian, France or Russian campaign tunic

Mark S

Last edited by msteve21 (02-10-2015 22:23:03)


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#9 02-10-2015 22:16:32

T Ambrosini
DAK Member
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 21-12-2014
Posts: 37

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

Just a thought (or half-baked theory)...  The tabs were taken from a HBT tunic, and rather than attempt to remove the tabs and potentially damage them, the HBT material was cut and folded like this.  Nice tunic!

Tom

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#10 03-10-2015 00:31:47

erel
DAK Member
Registered: 21-06-2015
Posts: 72

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

Hi gentlemen. Why do you think that the tunic has a button inside the nape of the collar?
Regards!

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#11 07-10-2015 01:10:10

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 580

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

No idea why button was placed there???
The owner hs offered it to me for $2000 us, any opinions as to whether this is a resonable price


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
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#12 07-10-2015 09:23:39

barry1954
Confirmed DAK Member
Registered: 23-04-2011
Posts: 179

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

Hi Mark

Officers tunics are difficult to authenticate so if you have any doubts I would say look at the sum of its parts. Are the medal loops original?

Barry

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#13 07-10-2015 14:48:15

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2526

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

I agree with Barry. Since there is no solid proof that the upgrade to officer's job was made period, then the sum of it's parts would be the only option for me.

IMO not more than $1000.


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#14 08-10-2015 09:54:50

msteve21
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 580

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

Agree with above statements, will pass on this one


Collector of DAK & Panzer Militia
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#15 12-10-2015 11:36:04

The Magpie
Veteran DAK Member
Registered: 29-06-2011
Posts: 650

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

Hi Mark,

As we spoke before and i gave my first impression which was somewhat negative allow me to followup. Do not think this is an Afrikaner but do think it saw service in the Sud Front. The eagle application and lack of fading, though worn and used etc. The application & backing to the tabs looks good, have seen this before on original wool tunics, the tabs may have been damaged when removed from the wool tunic originally or to give them a sharper appearance. A faker would be less likely to attach a backing to the tabs. Shoulderboards need a "hands on" to tell. Have seen some incredible post war work on sewing officer boards to tunics...

In the end agree that its worth the sum of the parts but $1250 would be ok as its likely it did see service in the Sud Front as is, imo.


don_kihotis7 wrote:

I agree with Barry. Since there is no solid proof that the upgrade to officer's job was made period, then the sum of it's parts would be the only option for me.

IMO not more than $1000.

Hi Chris

So is a precedent being set here ? One-lookers the exception, unless a DAK jacket with officers insignia has provenance as to the Officer it should be likely considered put together post war and valued accordingly ? How can sewn insignia be proven to be from the War or in fact post war ? It can't. The best fakers these days can sew on an eagle. tabs, and shoulderboards and fool 95% of the collectors. Tropical tunics are ripe pickins for this. Most are stripped when found, original worn/used tropical insignia is hard to find and expensive. Unlike used/worn officers insignia which can be used to "promote" the tunic. 

If a precedent is being set, then i agree. But would like to hear Everyone's thoughts on this ?

Heia Safari !
Tim

Last edited by The Magpie (12-10-2015 22:45:48)

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#16 12-10-2015 15:00:16

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2526

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

Totally agreed mate.

I have seen what my tailor can do in just a few minutes with no previous experience about insignia etc. I just take him a picture explain what i want and ..... et voila he even does it better that expected.

Tropical officer's tunics are just like the non issued LW flight leather jackets. No one can say 101% when they were made. So i prefer either to build them my self or buy them at the value of the sum of their parts.

I can be positive about specific examples and say "it does look good" etc but i wouldn't empty my bank account to buy it wink


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#17 14-11-2015 06:45:09

The Magpie
Veteran DAK Member
Registered: 29-06-2011
Posts: 650

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

barry1954 wrote:

Hi Mark

Officers tunics are difficult to authenticate so if you have any doubts I would say look at the sum of its parts. Are the medal loops original?

Barry

Hi Mark

Bit of a late follow up. Can you address Barry's point about the award loops, is it matching thread also ?

thanks
Tim

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#18 14-11-2015 06:48:36

The Magpie
Veteran DAK Member
Registered: 29-06-2011
Posts: 650

Re: Calvery Officer Tropical Tunic

T Ambrosini wrote:

Just a thought (or half-baked theory)...  The tabs were taken from a HBT tunic, and rather than attempt to remove the tabs and potentially damage them, the HBT material was cut and folded like this.  Nice tunic!

Tom

Hi Tom

Think you may be right about this, HBT big_smile "half baked theory", or at least that the original tunic material that the tabs were sewn to, was cut/folded and then sewn onto the tropical tunic ?

with best regards
Tim

Last edited by The Magpie (14-11-2015 06:53:45)

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