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#1 12-01-2015 16:40:48

rhino
New Member
Registered: 12-01-2015
Posts: 4

M40 camo helmet - observations please

Hi

First post on the forum so forgive me if I mess something up:-)

I have recently acquired a very nice tan camo helmet.  Sold as Mediterranean camo but perhaps someone on here can advise if there could be a DAK connection.
It seems to be an early M40, marked SE66 with a low batch number - looks like 0096.
Please say what you think - I won't be insulted.

Thanks

Rob     
http://i60.tinypic.com/106j4o5.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/2sb34o3.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/vg2bv9.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/28cemnl.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/rupezq.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/2e5jdav.jpg

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#2 12-01-2015 18:30:51

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2522

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

Hello Rob ans welcome to the forum.
I am not an expert on helmets so i hope i am wrong. I see fresh rust on top of the camo paint and the colors of decals look too bright in comparison with the condition of the rest of the helmet.


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#3 12-01-2015 18:42:11

Eddie
Friend Of DAK Forum
From: UK
Registered: 30-06-2012
Posts: 482

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

Hello Rob certainly an original helmet but has been repainted on the outside and badly aged by just adding a few scratches, the eagle might be ok but looks like the national colours was added if you can confirm that the batch number is 0096 I should be able to check and see if it was produced as a double decal Luftwaffe or not the inside colour actually looks like an Army issue one.


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#4 12-01-2015 22:06:02

NZMark
Moderator
From: New Zealand
Registered: 08-04-2011
Posts: 1096

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

I can only agree - contrived paint job which calls all the other components into question.
Regards,
Mark


Student & Collector of WWII German Tropical Militaria

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#5 13-01-2015 10:30:24

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2522

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

I have also contacted a friend who is a helmet collector and he gave me his opinion:

Shell is original

The liner has a chance

The tan paint is fake

Both decals are fake

And the chinstrap is fake

Last edited by don_kihotis7 (13-01-2015 14:14:14)


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#6 13-01-2015 11:59:41

Sebastian.V
Administrator
From: Paris
Registered: 06-04-2011
Posts: 1953

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

just the Body of Helmet is good sorry

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#7 13-01-2015 14:06:01

rhino
New Member
Registered: 12-01-2015
Posts: 4

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

Thank you for your opinions on this helmet.
Sorry it has taken a while to reply - camera problems. As well as the photos below, there is more detail.
Chin strap is marked RB Nr. 0\390\0204
Liner is very supple and easily lifted away from the band for inspection.  Felt padding looks as good as new, liner marked 9 - 43, 59, RBN 0/260/9717.
Inner shell has rust and paint left appears a much lighter shade of green than the army field green. 
Eddie - please can you tell me if the SE66, batch number 0096 was originally double decal.
http://i61.tinypic.com/30nfzmu.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/dfuhao.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/2873xur.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/9a9ze1.jpg

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#8 14-01-2015 02:04:58

Eddie
Friend Of DAK Forum
From: UK
Registered: 30-06-2012
Posts: 482

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

Latest info I have obtained Rob is SE did not make any Double decal M40 Luftwaffe helmets only Police DD. SE66 Batch number 0096 M40 was single decal Luftwaffe are you able to return the helmet to the seller if not at least shame them on the forum.Hope this does not put you off collecting can't be a collector out there who hasn't been stung especially trying to find a DAK helmet I know I have twice in my early collecting days.
Regards Eddie


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#9 15-01-2015 01:40:25

rhino
New Member
Registered: 12-01-2015
Posts: 4

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

Eddie

I appreciate the information you have provided on this helmet - good to know that it was originally a Luftwaffe, single decal helmet.
Reading up on the subject of decals, it seems that the national shield was not originally present on any M40 helmet.  Further a directive in 1943 was supposed to see the removal of all national shield decals - summit about them being too bright and a bit of a target:-)
Needless to say the rules were broken and individual soldiers, particularly Luftwaffe with time on their hands applied their own or did not remove the national shield decal.

Can I ask you another favour please.  I have two other German helmets - would like to confirm their original decal status if possible..........
1) M35 Luftwaffe double decal, batch 21909, maker/size SE64
2) M42 sign of removed single shield shape decal, batch 4550, maker/size EF62

Sorry to ask on the forum but not allowed to email you privately.

Many thanks

Rob

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#10 16-01-2015 13:35:45

Eddie
Friend Of DAK Forum
From: UK
Registered: 30-06-2012
Posts: 482

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

rhino wrote:

Eddie

I appreciate the information you have provided on this helmet - good to know that it was originally a Luftwaffe, single decal helmet.
Reading up on the subject of decals, it seems that the national shield was not originally present on any M40 helmet.  Further a directive in 1943 was supposed to see the removal of all national shield decals - summit about them being too bright and a bit of a target:-)
Needless to say the rules were broken and individual soldiers, particularly Luftwaffe with time on their hands applied their own or did not remove the national shield decal.

Can I ask you another favour please.  I have two other German helmets - would like to confirm their original decal status if possible..........
1) M35 Luftwaffe double decal, batch 21909, maker/size SE64
2) M42 sign of removed single shield shape decal, batch 4550, maker/size EF62

Sorry to ask on the forum but not allowed to email you privately.

Many thanks

Rob

Hi Rob,
Good news on these ones M35 is right dd Luftwaffe, the m42 is a no decal from factory.
Regards
Eddie


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#11 16-01-2015 13:41:03

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2522

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

If the M42 should have no decal from the factory and Rob says there are signs of removed decal then it's a red flag.


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#12 16-01-2015 22:55:19

rhino
New Member
Registered: 12-01-2015
Posts: 4

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

Thank you so much for this Eddie.  Whatever source you have for this information and your sharing it is invaluable.

Really pleased that the M35 was originally double decal Luftwaffe.
Not surprised about the M42 - looks like a standard army helmet but still a nice item.  I believe it was on display in a smoky French café for some years.
I bought these helmets recently as a lot and very happy with all of them.

A shame that there  is no DAK connection with the M40 I initially enquired about but in truth it was described to me as Mediterranean camo.  This is my favourite helmet of the three - it looks so good although my apologies for very poor replication with the camera shots. This is also the only helmet that will sit properly on my head. My excuse for that is that German WWII heads were small, others may say different:-)

All the best

Rob

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#13 07-04-2018 23:29:30

d-dayman
DAK Member
Registered: 30-04-2015
Posts: 88

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

I just want to make a comment about helmets in general and I don't know if anyone else agrees with me... but I have collected helmets for a good time now.... Perhaps 30+ years and in my day nobody was interested in batch numbers or makers lettering stamps ... they made zero difference to a good helmet.

Either it was a good helmet or it was not.

I find that a lot of "dealers in crap" seem to use the size, makers name and batch number as some explanation of superior knowledge about a particular helmet nowadays. I nearly always see this information available on fake helmets and it seems like it is used to impress newbies to the subject.

In another life 12 years ago, I bought two batches of 500 (each time) helmets (1,000 helmets in total) from the Czech police when they sold off all of their black painted (re-issued German helmets) in the 1980's.

In the batch were some really strange stamped helmets and nobody was interested... ZZ as a makers mark.  Z on its own - 00 etc. - and dozens of other strange markings... all 100% original and nobody cared.

The old adage you should buy the helmet and not the story should hold true when it comes to "which company added another decal" or which company did x, y and z.  I think it is quite ridiculous to suggest seriously that 70 years later we can tell anyone which company only produced single, double and otherwise decalled helmets as a global rule.

Its just a personal opinion - but either a helmet, liner, chinstrap and decal are right or they are not. Homework is the key and wrong ones generally stand out to us all. If they did not then we would not be able to advise people when they ask those questions.

If we have put the practice in to study genuine ones then everyone else can do the same.  I don't mind helping new collectors and indeed I have (without going into detail) a long track record of doing just that in a very big way.  But I tell them all that helmet stamps, makers stamps and batch numbers are irrelevant.  A good helmet will tell you its genuine without having to consider those things.

Again - I find this information is provided as a badge of confidence by most dubious vendors and is being requested by many rooky collectors as if it is specialist info that they need to have.

As a suggestion - would the forum members be interested in uploading a good set of decals from their own collections  - as they have on their own helmets.  I think that a good quality reference guide like that would be invaluable - if contributions came from Europe, UK, USA and from many fields:- Luft, Army, SS etc... it could only be a good thing.

It would be something that could be added too only be consensus from the group and I think would stand the test of time for future collectors.

As I say - this is just an opinion but for me batch numbers and makers names have zero value...

Last edited by d-dayman (07-04-2018 23:40:31)


Collecting anything belonging to the WWII US Army Rangers.   Anything related to Omaha Beach on D-day… German Artillery and anything related to the British Landing Craft Assault boats.

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#14 08-04-2018 21:36:21

fr2ul8
New Member
Registered: 08-04-2018
Posts: 3

Re: M40 camo helmet - observations please

Hi agree with posting original decals and other information on helmets, as already happens on other forums. This would massively help new collectors and gives everyone a chance to compare any decals against original examples.
I think the picture/s of the decals should be followed by information such as helmet manufacturer, model, markings, etc, etc... 


d-dayman wrote:

I just want to make a comment about helmets in general and I don't know if anyone else agrees with me... but I have collected helmets for a good time now.... Perhaps 30+ years and in my day nobody was interested in batch numbers or makers lettering stamps ... they made zero difference to a good helmet.

Either it was a good helmet or it was not.

I find that a lot of "dealers in crap" seem to use the size, makers name and batch number as some explanation of superior knowledge about a particular helmet nowadays. I nearly always see this information available on fake helmets and it seems like it is used to impress newbies to the subject.

In another life 12 years ago, I bought two batches of 500 (each time) helmets (1,000 helmets in total) from the Czech police when they sold off all of their black painted (re-issued German helmets) in the 1980's.

In the batch were some really strange stamped helmets and nobody was interested... ZZ as a makers mark.  Z on its own - 00 etc. - and dozens of other strange markings... all 100% original and nobody cared.

The old adage you should buy the helmet and not the story should hold true when it comes to "which company added another decal" or which company did x, y and z.  I think it is quite ridiculous to suggest seriously that 70 years later we can tell anyone which company only produced single, double and otherwise decalled helmets as a global rule.

Its just a personal opinion - but either a helmet, liner, chinstrap and decal are right or they are not. Homework is the key and wrong ones generally stand out to us all. If they did not then we would not be able to advise people when they ask those questions.

If we have put the practice in to study genuine ones then everyone else can do the same.  I don't mind helping new collectors and indeed I have (without going into detail) a long track record of doing just that in a very big way.  But I tell them all that helmet stamps, makers stamps and batch numbers are irrelevant.  A good helmet will tell you its genuine without having to consider those things.

Again - I find this information is provided as a badge of confidence by most dubious vendors and is being requested by many rooky collectors as if it is specialist info that they need to have.

As a suggestion - would the forum members be interested in uploading a good set of decals from their own collections  - as they have on their own helmets.  I think that a good quality reference guide like that would be invaluable - if contributions came from Europe, UK, USA and from many fields:- Luft, Army, SS etc... it could only be a good thing.

It would be something that could be added too only be consensus from the group and I think would stand the test of time for future collectors.

As I say - this is just an opinion but for me batch numbers and makers names have zero value...

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