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New Forum about the DAK and Tropical German army, and Allied army in WW2 only

#1 15-12-2014 15:45:38

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2477

Black Panzer Wrap

Hi friends, here is a nice salty dog. It has seen a lot of service and i believe that at some point it had been reissued since there is a big "X" on the size markings. I have marked the area in red.
The right sleeve and also the loops for the shoulderboards have been repaired with another kind of cloth most probably post war. All insignia are reapplied and it has many many repairs on the body.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4657.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4660.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4659.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4669.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4675.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4663.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4678.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4684.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4686.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4687.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4689.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4691.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4692.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/2378_img_4699.jpg


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#2 15-12-2014 17:26:25

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1131
Website

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Nice jacket Don! Are there different models of panzer wraps also? Would this be the type that was possibly worn very early in Afrika? I don't figure on ever affording one so I haven't studied the wraps closely.
                                                                                         Barron

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#3 15-12-2014 17:44:19

Sebastian.V
Administrator
From: Paris
Registered: 06-04-2011
Posts: 1932

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Whooo...my dream ! the eagle is too clean for that tunic, hard to find a salty today !

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#4 15-12-2014 20:30:42

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2477

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Rebbaron55 wrote:

Nice jacket Don! Are there different models of panzer wraps also? Would this be the type that was possibly worn very early in Afrika? I don't figure on ever affording one so I haven't studied the wraps closely.
                                                                                         Barron

Hi Baron. Tanks for the comments. This is the later pattern. The early one had pink piping around the collar.


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#5 15-12-2014 20:32:34

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2477

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

S.Vestae wrote:

Whooo...my dream ! the eagle is too clean for that tunic, hard to find a salty today !

Hi Seba. I was planning to build a complete mannequin but it's an expensive project. I had to decide: this project or tropical stuff and i chose the second wink


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#6 15-12-2014 21:42:40

Sebastian.V
Administrator
From: Paris
Registered: 06-04-2011
Posts: 1932

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

that one is sold ?

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#7 16-12-2014 08:50:24

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2477

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

No i still have it. But i am sure when i find a 1st pattern M40 cap or a nice "pinkish" camo helmet i will need to sell it to raise the funds big_smile


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#8 16-12-2014 14:23:45

Sebastian.V
Administrator
From: Paris
Registered: 06-04-2011
Posts: 1932

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

I p.m you for that jacket Don

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#9 18-12-2014 22:53:11

NZMark
Moderator
From: New Zealand
Registered: 08-04-2011
Posts: 1060

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

I can see this one with a set of late war tropical kielhose combination - I've always liked the mixture of wool and twill in Italy - perhaps you could use it in that scenario?
I'd love one myself but $$$$!
Mark


Student & Collector of WWII German Tropical Militaria

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#10 19-12-2014 10:43:37

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2477

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Good idea Mark. That way i can display it as a DAK impression. The wrap, with a pz crusher, tropical kielhose and low boots would be awesome.

Yeah prices for these higly desirable garments make them unreachable. For one in good condition and originally applied insignia the cost would be around 4500 euros. For a first pattern even more. I saw one recently for 9000 euros yikes

Of course the condition of mine helped a lot at keeping a much lower price.


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#11 19-12-2014 21:59:11

NZMark
Moderator
From: New Zealand
Registered: 08-04-2011
Posts: 1060

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Now, you just need to find these...cool
http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/3_live_175.jpg
Mark


Student & Collector of WWII German Tropical Militaria

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#12 19-12-2014 22:57:26

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2477

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

I was thinking of this pair but it's on hold hmm

http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=3312


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#13 19-12-2014 23:51:13

Tin Soldier
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 15-09-2011
Posts: 574

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Rebbaron55 wrote:
Nice jacket Don! Are there different models of panzer wraps also? Would this be the type that was possibly worn very early in Afrika? I don't figure on ever affording one so I haven't studied the wraps closely.
                                                                                         Barron

Hi Barron,...I have only seen photos of the early pattern panzer wrap being worn in Africa, but no one has seen all the photos ever taken in Africa so who knows?
The earlier version panzer wrap also had a larger/wider collar and some of those versions also have a rounder front corner of the collar, this seems to vary though?
And then the SS version was slightly different again, main feature is the front button up fly part is not cut on an angle like the heer version plus it does not wrap as far around
the body as the heer version it is only just off centre to the right when wearing it.

And the front fold down part of the wrap on the SS version did not fold down as far (the panel on the front that the medal ribbons are attached to).
But again I have also seen some Heer versions that don't fold down as far, so this also seems to vary possibly on the manufacturer?

And strangely enough both trousers were also slightly different from one another, but I think it was only the buttons on the pockets SS had two buttons top and bottom while the heer version only had a centre button. Why they did this I have no idea hmm

I had to study this a bit a few years back when trying to put together a display for the Greek Campaign 1941 and realised I could not afford original Heer and SS Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler
complete Panzer and Infantry uniforms lol

So I had to settle for repro, but I tried to get the best repros I could muster to do this, even reapplying pink & silver bullion piping, and proper bullion insignia for my SS officer version.
I still have to age/weather some things but they are basically complete now, not that we want to see too much repro gear on this forum but I will
show some photos just for this post & purpose.

Take note of the Heer & SS Wraps as mentioned above, I know it is difficult because of their colour wink Even though these are repro the black uniforms still look impressive big_smile
The Headset, Throat Mic, Shooters Lanyard, Signal Flash insignia, No.3 Shoulder Board Cyphers, NCO Tresse & Goggles are original cool
Oh and possibly the collar skulls on the signals wrap, not 100% on that though?
(sold to me as repros for $20 but found photos of an original pair and they look exactly the same in every detail front & back) hmm

Cheers
Stu




http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_3171.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_3172.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4054.jpg  http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4067.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4060.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4062.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4063.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4061.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4077.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4082.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4086.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4090.jpg

Last edited by Tin Soldier (20-12-2014 00:14:23)


It's all good and well to sing along when the world goes along with a song, but the man
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#14 20-12-2014 00:39:57

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1131
Website

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Thank you Tin Soldier for the illustration of my question! Color on a mannequin is always so much clearer and easier to see than old B&W photos! Wondering how many other veteran reenactors we have on this forum? I served for twenty five years plus in US Civil War reenacting from the early 1980s and we had to make our own uniforms originally and WW2 was even worse for accurate gear unless is was original allied stuff!! Watch "Combat!!!" series and it was still that bad to about 1990. Thanks again!
                                                                                                                            Barron

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#15 20-12-2014 09:06:27

Tin Soldier
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 15-09-2011
Posts: 574

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Sorry Barron,... some of my latest posts, avatar and signature may have been misleading but I'm not a reenactor.

I've tried over the years to collect Australian original items from the Boer War 1899-1902, WW1, WW2, Korea & Vietnam plus the enemy of the time
but as I mentioned unfortunately some of the enemy items are the rarest to collect WW1 Turkish (Gallipoli/Palestine) WW1 German (France), WW1 German Tropical (Palestine), DAK (Africa), SS Panzer, SS Infantry, Heer Panzer (Greece), German Paratrooper (Crete, Africa) & Japanese (Pacific).

I know some Japanese items are common but some parts are ultra rare etc Belt & Rear Ammo Pouch, Neck Flap for the cap, and anything Boer from the Boer War?
Even the WW1 Australian items I have were hard to find as we didn't have such a large army as most other nations just under five million as a whole population in WW1, but I have been very lucky to say the least. But that's Infantry, Australian Light Horse for a Palestine display may as well forget about it.

I know of a complete uniform being bought by the Australian War Memorial recently that sold for $25,000 yikes
This also came with original WW1 Australian boots, this is the hardest part of the kit to get, they just don't exist any more, you will pay $10,000 just for a Slouch Hat with the emu plume in it roll

So you would have to win the lotto just to even start thinking about completing an original full display of the Australian Light Horse from the Great War.
Some items are very common which I have but Tunic & Slouch Hat, forget it!

Regards
Stu


It's all good and well to sing along when the world goes along with a song, but the man
worth while is the one who can smile when everything goes dead wrong.


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_sig_4.jpg

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#16 20-12-2014 11:24:14

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2477

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Stu thanks for all the info man.
Although i am against of wasting money on repros, i must admit that your sets look awesome.
Unfortunately these stuff are so expensive in our time that most of us can see them in our sleep or as repros hmm


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#17 20-12-2014 14:41:23

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1131
Website

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

You got that one right for sure about the prices and availability. Even some DAK items have gotten to that situation such as web rifle grenade launcher carrier-still haven't seen an original! Sometimes fantasy pieces turn up though the reenactors etc. too as long as we know that is what they are!

                                                                                                                                                                                     Barron

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#18 21-12-2014 00:57:11

Tin Soldier
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 15-09-2011
Posts: 574

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Rebbaron55 wrote:
Stu thanks for all the info man.
Although i am against of wasting money on repros, i must admit that your sets look awesome.
Unfortunately these stuff are so expensive in our time that most of us can see them in our sleep or as repros hmm

No probs Chris, yeah I really wanted to represent the Greek Campaign as this is a forgotten part of WW2, Crete not so much but again trying to put together
an early German Paratrooper Uniform with early Jump Smock and side Laced Boots again forget it sad

And I've always liked the black L.A.H. SS Allgemeine uniforms from a design point of view and researching this topic I found that many original tunics had Gallipoli/Turkish Star medals.
So some of these members were veterans of the Palestine Campaign during WW1, as I was thinking how do you display something like this without being called a Nazi?
But with this link from WW1 I could show an early version just for something a bit different (note the early hand painted decals in photos below) and then an Officer from the later period, that then
links up with the L.A.H. in Greece big_smile

The M16 helmet in the photos is an original from WW1 that was just a shell with no paint basicly only cost $150, the headset again & the boots are original, plus the Dagger Scabbard & Hanger, Sports badge, WW1 Wound badge, Medal Ribbons & the Belt not Buckle plus Technical Trade Badge on the camo wrap are original.

I managed to get just the other day from Germany a very nice quality pair of white kid leather gloves to go with the white equipment, not sure if they are original? They do have numbers etc stamped inside so they must be ex-military but not sure they are from that period? Beautiful gloves though.

The Black Leather SS Panzer Wrap shown below is also beautiful quality kid leather.

So I might as well show you the rest of these to complete this post, cheers wink
Stu






http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4118.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_3146.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4105.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_4099.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_1634.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_0341.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_0345.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_0166.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_0182.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_0181.jpg

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_img_0180.jpg

Last edited by Tin Soldier (21-12-2014 01:25:27)


It's all good and well to sing along when the world goes along with a song, but the man
worth while is the one who can smile when everything goes dead wrong.


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#19 21-12-2014 11:50:30

Sebastian.V
Administrator
From: Paris
Registered: 06-04-2011
Posts: 1932

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Great pics ! Repro or not the only fun is hobby !

the value of the black stuff is incredible now... I have just this one in mint condition...

http://i60.tinypic.com/mm6ixv.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/10ibbjk.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/2it67t0.jpg

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#20 21-12-2014 17:37:58

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2477

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Wow Stu, you have a complete collection of these. Very nice cool


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#21 22-12-2014 03:39:54

Tin Soldier
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 15-09-2011
Posts: 574

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Thanks Seb, I love your SS Panzer Cap with piping - very nice!

And thank you Chris, yes a short history of the LAH from the link to a veteran of the Palestine Campaign in WW1 were the Australian Light Horse probably
fought against some of these veterans. To the rise of the Nazi Party in the 1920's-30's and the beginning of WW2 to the Greek Campaign in 1941.

Sorry Chris I didn't mean to hijack your post hmm

Cheers
Stu

Last edited by Tin Soldier (22-12-2014 03:42:13)


It's all good and well to sing along when the world goes along with a song, but the man
worth while is the one who can smile when everything goes dead wrong.


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#22 22-12-2014 08:34:49

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2477

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Stu there is no such thing as my thread. It's a thread for all of us wink


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#23 22-12-2014 10:19:06

Tin Soldier
Veteran DAK Member
From: Australia
Registered: 15-09-2011
Posts: 574

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

Well said Chris,...thanks mate!

Someone give this man a medal big_smile

Regards
Stu


It's all good and well to sing along when the world goes along with a song, but the man
worth while is the one who can smile when everything goes dead wrong.


http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/img/avatars/afrikakorps/big/54_sig_4.jpg

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#24 22-12-2014 12:07:39

Rebbaron55
Supreme DAK Member
From: Central Coast of California
Registered: 08-07-2014
Posts: 1131
Website

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

I'll second that motion! smile

                                               Barron

Last edited by Rebbaron55 (22-12-2014 12:09:20)

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#25 22-12-2014 12:13:05

don_kihotis7
Moderator
From: Cyprus
Registered: 05-09-2013
Posts: 2477

Re: Black Panzer Wrap

lol Lol, i wouldn't mind an Iron Cross roll


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